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Old 08-05-2010, 02:07 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,138,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post
..............................

Have you ever been the victim of constant bullying/harassment? Do you know the effect it can have on someone? ..............
YES

I chose not to be a threat to myself or to others in coming to terms with the bullies and evil in this world. I didn't choose to behave badly just because I had "an excuse".
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Metro DC area
4,541 posts, read 3,649,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eevee View Post
ONE person claims this, that person is dead. I know there are reports of him holding up a phone for his GF to hear, but we don't know WHAT she heard, and even she can't be 100% what she heard and could possibly take it out of context. if such drawings existed, how come no one else reported them? or was EVERYONE working there a racist? I know I for one would report such drawings ASAP to the proper people. again, who else BESIDES THE SHOOTER saw the graffiti? who else BESIDES THE SHOOTER have proof anything racist happened?
Who has proof it didn't happen?

The girlfriend says she overheard him being called a n!gger...how could that ever be taken "out of context"?

Also, she says the guys would do dumb stuff like messing up the way the truck is packed so that he would be behind....who, besides the driver, would see this when he opens the truck to start his day? If he's one of a handful of black people working at a place and he has a gripe, he's more than likely not gonna go get a white coworker to complain. He's just gonna get pissed, do his work and complain to his family and GF when he gets home.
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Metro DC area
4,541 posts, read 3,649,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eevee View Post
claimed to who is the major question here. complained to his GF (who did nothing about). complained to his family (who did nothing about it). he could have complained to his freaking dog if he owned one. doesn't help and doesn't make it true or even real if there's nothing to back it up w/. you seem to have this faulty idea that there is only ONE channel to deal w/ racism in the work place. that is false. if you actually wanted to solve the problem (the correct way, mind you. shooting the supposed racists to death isn't the right way), you would pursue alternate means. it's been done countless times before
So, because he didn't complain to the right people, the harassment and racial discrimination didn't exist? Right.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by eevee View Post
funny, we have pictures of his GF, but nothing about the photos he sent her of the graffiti. I personally would have saved such a message...
I would think if such messages still exist, they are apart of the investigation and not being released to the public (like the supposed video of him stealing).
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Metro DC area
4,541 posts, read 3,649,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
YES

I chose not to be a threat to myself or to others in coming to terms with the bullies and evil in this world. I didn't choose to behave badly just because I had "an excuse".
Constant? How did you handle such bullying?
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:14 PM
 
9,948 posts, read 6,864,982 times
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This is how it works. If a white guy was walking down the street in a community where violent crime and robberies are known to occur, and then shoots and kills 3 black teens who he said were trying to rob him, most white people would believe his motivation for the shooting. If the men were not armed, then his actions would certainly not be justifiable. It would be an overreaction; however, few whites would doubt the claims of attempted robbery given that it happened in a high crime area.

What amazing to me is America has always been a High Racism area, especially for those over the age of 50. Yet, when a black persons claims to be a victim of racism, white folks act as if this country does not have a long, long history of white racism. Now, I would be less inclined to believe such a story if it were a bunch of 20 something year old white folks, due to the fact that the younger generation are less likely to hold such archaic thinking. However, when you are talking about a demographic of 50 and over, this is the demographic in America less receptive to all the changes. Some of t hem still refer to black people as “coloreds”.

I mean….in all honesty……..I believe the guys story…….I just do not condone his reaction to it. I mean his girlfriend said that they would pack his truck wrong. If the truck is not packed properly, product can get damaged and I guess he would be held responsible. Packing his truck wrong could have other implications on him being on schedule and doing a good job. I mean all the things his girlfriend says points to a pattern of things that would indicate that they were trying to get him fired or drive him out of the company. There may have been only a select circle of people in on it, but it definitely appears as if he was being harassed.

That having said, people who keep things bottled up inside are the ones who usually explode. Some people keep things to themselves and try to resolve their own problems their own way or think things will get better on their own. Some people are simply introverts which results in things building up inside of t hem.
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,370,071 times
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So where's the Black support groups on this ?
Why are they in the spotlight demanding a full investigation into the supposed harassments ?
Usually they are 2nd on the scene after the cops and all over the press ?

Where are they if this is so cut and dried as some imply here ?
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Chicago
6,021 posts, read 13,523,425 times
Reputation: 8045
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post
The union rep wouldn’t even return his calls….so the union wouldn’t have much info to give on Thornton’s gripes. Also, in the face of such a tragedy, I doubt if you’ll get many workers who will come forward and say “Yes, I saw those guys bothering Thornton”. Not going to happen. You say so far we have the words of the shooter, his GF and the family. Why is that not a strong case? Those were the guy’s last words to his mother. What possible motivation would he have in lying saying he murdered the racists who were bothering him. Why not just say “I just killed these guys because they claimed they caught me stealing”? If they were random shootings, why did he bypass some people to get to other victims? Many people here claim “I’m not racist, my friends/wife/girlfriend, etc is black/Hispanic/arab. Well, this guy’s girlfriend was white, so what do we make of this?
as mentioned, there is more than one way to report racism in the work place. a union rep not returning a phone call doesn't mean you just drop the issue. if need be, you take your findings to the media and expose the company. it's been done countless times before.

and I'm talking about co-workers reporting racism BEFORE the shooting. is there any report of any other co-worker witnessing racism there? any other report of a co-worker seeing the graffiti? someone had to clean it off, why hasn't that person come forward? or is every single person, right down to the cleaning person who cleaned off the graffiti, racist and kept their mouth shut?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post
Have you ever been the victim of constant bullying/harassment? Do you know the effect it can have on someone? This is not an isolated incident. This sort of thing happens in America. If bullying and harassment wasn’t a big deal, why are there kids that come home from school and hang themselves because they’re tired of being bullied? Why did the Columbine shootings happen? Whydid the guy at the Pentagon kill his coworkers? I’ve never been a victim of blatant racism, but I can imagine if I had to deal with it on a daily basis and nothing happened after I reported it to my supervisors or even find out that my very supervisors were calling me a n!gger, I would be very resentful. Resentment that simmers can have a disastrous effect .
Saying the guy could’ve just quit, after trying for 2 years to get the job, in a bad economy where unemployment is high is unrealistic. He tried to deal with it to keep his job, but once the job was gone anyway, he just went balls to the wall.
yes, I've been bullied. I've been harassed. I've been on the receiving end of emotional abuse for a good chunk of my life. as a child, I sat back and did nothing. as an adult who now knows better, I stand up for myself and other potential victims by speaking up and not hiding like a coward. AGAIN, he had plenty of other options besides shooting 8 people to death. a sane person would have seen those options (don't know about you, but if my choices were to quit my racist job or go on a shooting rampage that ends in suicide, I would choose the former in an instant ). and I still don't know how being the victim of racism leads on to steal from their employer (you know, the reason he was in that office in the first place)

being bullied is no excuse for murder.

murder is not the way to stop abuse and bullying.

stop believing it is


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post
Because someone can be a murderer doesn’t preclude them from being able to tell the truth. Still don’t quite understand what would be his motivation in telling his mother this in his last words. Still don’t know what his girlfriend’s motivation would be in saying she overheard his supervisor calling him a n!gger.
no, but it makes them far less credible. maybe he needed to create a reason to take this ultimate step by painting the company and victims, in his head, as the racist enemy. maybe he had the foresight to think that, even if he died, the cries of racism would tarnish the company. again, he just have his word that any racism existed in the workplace. if it did, HE should have done a lot more to report the problem.

I ask you, if someone treated you badly, would you let it go? if your boss was obviously racist, would you not report it? keep evidence of racist notes and drawings? report it to as many people as possible, the union, the company, the press, the NAACP, etc?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post
The proof is the same as of the video of him stealing…..something both sides say exists. Yet some here believe the videotape of him stealing while they disbelieve that the pics of the racist graffiti and overhead conversation exist. I wonder why?
the video can easily be produced. it probably already has since it will need to be used as proof in any firing case. it was reported the shooter viewed the tape and admitted it was him. on the other hand, the mystery graffiti as yet to surface and we just have the word of a dead murderer and his GF who seems to be sticking by him even after the fact. where are these pics? I for one would have shown them to the media by now if I was going to talk to them about how my BF claimed racism at work

plus, ask yourself this, who has more reason to lie: a major unionized company that would need solid proof before firing a union member, or a man who committed several crimes ended up going on a suicidal murder rampage?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post
You can’t have it both ways. The guy’s either a paranoid schizo with imaginings of racial discrimination who killed those he perceived to have wronged him or he’s a cold-blooded killer.
nothing saying he can't be both. do the research. plenty of jailed killers w/ psychiatric illness.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post
I’m not saying threats of violence as in “If you keep effing with me, I’m going to kill you”, but rather the subconscious realization that if you bully someone they may just snap “like that other guy did” and take me out. I think that would be a very real way to get through to some people. If I were a guy in America effing with someone in the workplace and heard about this shooting, it would surely help me in straightening up my act. When you learn there are deadly consequences for your a$$hole actions, you tend to reevaluate things.
again, fear of violence is not the way of solving the problem.

would you rather white people didn't mess w/ you out of fear of violence or b/c they, you know, actually respected you as a person?

is that somehow preferable, to have people be nice to you out of fear?

is it preferable to have people treat you as an equal out of concern you may kill them?

do people in state where carry and conceal is legal honestly respect each other more b/c they fear the other person may otherwise just shoot them dead?

is racism and bullying nonexistent in such places b/c bullies and racists would be too afraid to attack out of fear of their lives?

intimidation is NOT the way to garner respect from anyone. intimidation is not the answer to bullying or racism.
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Chicago
6,021 posts, read 13,523,425 times
Reputation: 8045
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocLot View Post
Who has proof it didn't happen?

The girlfriend says she overheard him being called a n!gger...how could that ever be taken "out of context"?

Also, she says the guys would do dumb stuff like messing up the way the truck is packed so that he would be behind....who, besides the driver, would see this when he opens the truck to start his day? If he's one of a handful of black people working at a place and he has a gripe, he's more than likely not gonna go get a white coworker to complain. He's just gonna get pissed, do his work and complain to his family and GF when he gets home.
in the court of law, one needs to prove that something DID occur, not that something didn't

what she says is irrelevant b/c she didn't work there so she is getting all this info from him.
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:30 PM
 
9,948 posts, read 6,864,982 times
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White people would have much less problem accepting that he was harrased if the harrasement was for any other reason than being black. That is really the ROOT of the dissent ard arguing here. No one has stated that this person was justified in his actions and in fact everyone has said that he was not. Thus.....that is hardly the issue here. Everyone agrees the guy was wrong. Hence, the real issue is the debate over his claims of racial harassment.

It goes back to the narritive that white America is attempting to create. The narritive is designed to discredit and or mute the sting of accucations of racism against white people. They are doing this by attempting to portray blacks as just as racist while also discrediting claims of racism made by blacks. Thats because racism is now seen as a social scarlet letter. Shame is associated with those who wear the brand and hence whites are hell bent on removing that stain and shame from their people.

I say "their people" because whites are the first to claim to know what is in the minds of another white person. If a black person claims racism againt some white person, whites will come in to defend the white guy against the charges and caste aspersion upon the integrity of the black guy based. The existance of white racism would simply give validity to too many causes, policies and position, as well as despised leaders, plus, exposing the stain of shame.

Despite this nations long, long history of racism, white America is trying to FORCE a false narritive, which is that white racism has been eradicated.
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:32 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,138,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
White people would havee much less problem accepting that he was harrased if the harrasement was for any other reason than being black. That is really the ROOT of the dissent are arguing here. No one has stated that this person was justified in his actions and in fact everyone has said that he was not. Thus.....that is hardly the issue here. Everyone agrees the guy was wrong. Hence, the real issue is the debate over his claims of racial harassment.

It goes back to the narritive that white America attempting to create. The narritive is to discredit and or mute the sting of accucations of racism against white people. They are doing this by attempting to portray blacks as just as racist while also discrediting claims of racism made by blacks. Thats because racism is now seen as a social scarlet letter. Shame is associated with those who were the brand and hence whites are help bent on removing that stain and shame from their people.

I say "their people" because whites are the first to claim to know what is in the minds of another white person. If a black person claims racism againt some white person, whites will come in to defend the white guy against the charges and caste aspersion upon the integrity of the black guy based. The existance of white racism would simply give validity to too many causes, policies and position, as well as despised leaders, plus, exposing the stain of shame.

Despite this nations long, long history of racism, white America is trying to FORCE a false narritive, which is that white racism has been eradicated.
Well, as long as your entire argument boils down to "blame whitey".
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