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Old 06-25-2007, 12:30 PM
 
Location: MO Ozarkian in NE Hoosierana
4,682 posts, read 12,055,024 times
Reputation: 6992

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Am shocked to have read this...

Anger over river burials for India's dead babies | Environment | Reuters

Quote:
NEW DELHI (Reuters) - Within sight of Delhi's gleaming new metro train, Nawal Kishore slips the body of a baby into the waters of the Yamuna, one of the world's filthiest rivers.

It's just another day at work for the 40-year-old man, who has been disposing of the bodies of three or four children, rich and poor, in the polluted waters of the Yamuna or in the equally dirty river bank every day for the last decade.

Most Hindus cremate their dead, but crematoria across India usually turn away the corpses of babies and children under three, citing a tradition which says they should either be buried or submerged in "holy" rivers. ...
Another story... Varanasi - India - Mark Moxon, Travel Writer

Some additional info:
IOL: India's rivers dying a swift death

Ruth Fremson/The New York Times

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Old 06-25-2007, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
626 posts, read 992,691 times
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I have a solution. Make it illegal for babies under the age of three to die.
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Old 06-25-2007, 02:30 PM
 
1,341 posts, read 4,905,897 times
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I dont understand the point to this..if its ancient tradition to be put into a holy river upon death and the parents believe in it..so what? Did I miss something? I believe in cremation myself..and I hope that my wishes will be carryed out..and WOW if my ashes were scattered over a holy place, well that would be icing on the cake for me!
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Old 06-25-2007, 02:44 PM
 
Location: wrong planet
5,167 posts, read 11,434,314 times
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I wonder how many of these babies are female. I think it is not unusual to let female babies die or "help it along" a bit, because poorer families can not afford the dowries they are expected to pay for their daughters.
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Old 06-25-2007, 10:26 PM
 
Location: MO Ozarkian in NE Hoosierana
4,682 posts, read 12,055,024 times
Reputation: 6992
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2gurls View Post
I dont understand the point to this..if its ancient tradition to be put into a holy river upon death and the parents believe in it..so what? Did I miss something? I believe in cremation myself..and I hope that my wishes will be carryed out..and WOW if my ashes were scattered over a holy place, well that would be icing on the cake for me!
I guess a few points are that, at least in my mind, is why are bodies being 'disposed' of in a river? A river that runs through various communities? A river that then breeds various diseases? A river that is then contaminated? These bodies are not being cremated - they are being dumped/placed into the river. Just because some people believe in this? I really can not believe that I am typing this...
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Old 06-26-2007, 01:50 AM
 
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
2,096 posts, read 1,468,029 times
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I saw a documentary on this and it looks gruesome. Much to yucky to explain here.

The trick is to live up river.
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Old 06-26-2007, 04:47 AM
 
1,341 posts, read 4,905,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katzenfreund View Post
I wonder how many of these babies are female. I think it is not unusual to let female babies die or "help it along" a bit, because poorer families can not afford the dowries they are expected to pay for their daughters.
That is utter rubbish. As usual a third world country portrayed in the worst light possible. Just came back from a 15 year reunion in INDIA...and while I will give that the poorest and the filthiest of the filthiest of towns still follow alot of old school school tradition, many and I say many many DONT. Went to New Delhi, Mumbai (reminded me of the NYC scene), Agra, Punjab---all over and while I confess that there are still aspects of India that would take many moons to change, your take on the dowry system very skewed.

In fact that last I heard of a family doing any sort of dowry, was back in my GREAT GRANDPARENTS AGE. And to clarify how it works...the dowry is sellling off your daughters...Its presenting the grooms side of the family and the groom very nice and lavish gifts. Vice Versa The bride even to this day ends up making out as she is lavished with a bridal Trouseau(even in this country and on my wedding)..with jewels, dresses, perfumes, everything that you need to start your home...and NO those arent even the wedding gifts. The guys come in on white horse, and the girls leave in a cleopatra type of thingie that two people carry her in. (And yes,I have seen it done in this country).

Its an absolute amazing experience of what a wedding is like in India..and even more amazing around the world..if you havent experienced it or been to one, you wouldnt know.

Of course there are exceptions to everything..the poorer villages and townships may still follow old school stuff..but it is becoming rarer and rarer. And before someone says that Asian countries "prefer" boys.....GIRLS ARE CONSIDERED THE GOOD LUCK CHARMS of the family and literally worshiped till they get married and get married. I know because I Did and do so with my girls..and we were brought up here in this country.
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Old 06-26-2007, 04:54 AM
 
1,341 posts, read 4,905,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowCaver View Post
I guess a few points are that, at least in my mind, is why are bodies being 'disposed' of in a river? A river that runs through various communities? A river that then breeds various diseases? A river that is then contaminated? These bodies are not being cremated - they are being dumped/placed into the river. Just because some people believe in this? I really can not believe that I am typing this...
It is also considered extremelly holy to bath in the ganges river....from head to toe..Do people do it over there--yes its a matter of "faith". Would anyone outside of india do...probably not for the reasons you mentioned..would the upper class in india....maybe get their feet wet.

I wasnt brought up there so I cannot speak with full knowledge and extent..but I can say its a third world country...when it comes to certain things. People drink Dasani or bottled water over there..the upper class boils there water first.

And ironically all the tech jobs are going their anyway!

As far as the moral aspect...it may be just tradition..you cannot judge a person or country on something that they consider holy. Much like you cannot judge (what was it china?) that controled the womens right to bear only one child in her lifetime.
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Old 06-26-2007, 07:44 AM
 
Location: wrong planet
5,167 posts, read 11,434,314 times
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Tsk, well, if it is "absolute rubbish" why are there tons of articles if you google it, some of them by pbs, or humang rights groups...

Female infanticide is leading to an ever-increasing imbalance in the sex ratio. According to census statistics, the number of female children per male children in India has dropped from 972 girls per 1000 males in 1901 to 929 girls per 1000 males in 1991, and continues to decrease (Gendercide Watch - main page). The disparities between female and male mortality among the children in these regions reflect a deep-seated preference for sons. "Sons are called upon to provide the income; they are the one's who do most of the work in the fields. In this way they are looked to as a type of insurance". Sons are believed to secure the family's economic future. Women who fail to produce a son are often subject to ridicule and abuse, or are cast out of their husand's home to return to their family in shame...


Gendercide Watch: Female Infanticide

Female infanticide in India@Everything2.com

Portsmouth Herald World News: Killing infant girls and female fetuses in India (http://www.caroptionsonline.com/2002news/11102002/world/33809.htm - broken link)

FRONTLINE/WORLD . Rough Cut . India: The Missing Girls . Background Facts and Links | PBS

rediff.com Special: Female infanticide continues to be a hidden, yet much prevalent crime in India

Women and Global Human Rights

BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | India rapped over birth bias

Mizzima: Women in India, How Free?

The Statesman (http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?usrsess=1&theme=&id=17124&clid=20 - broken link)

How is that for a start????
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Old 06-26-2007, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
626 posts, read 992,691 times
Reputation: 141
katzenfreund, the media doesn't report the news, it makes the news.
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