Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Does a taste of free enterprise mean the end for Fidel's Cuba
by Mack Tanner & Larry Grupp
The Special Period
"Bring them to my house." She spoke in Spanish, her voice almost a shout. "Let them see my hungry children. Let them see the real Cuba." The angry, distraught woman appeared suddenly out of the crowd to confront the Cuban government guide shepherding a bus load ot Canadian tourists through the streets of Havana. In her mid-30s and wearing a worn, dirty cotton print dress, she was thin, but she didn't seem to be starving.
Is Communism and Socialism effective and does it work?
Does Cuba have the "outstanding healthcare" Michael Moore thinks it has? And if it does, why are people leaving Cuba for America, taking a dangerous journey towards the country Michael Moore claims the healthcare sucks?
Is it worth it to socialize healthcare and then let your people starve or suffer deprivation of basic needs like toilet paper and toothpaste?
Can the USA flood Cuba with Dollars and create problems for Castro and the other Socialists because Cubans would create "back market free-enterprises"?
Will the USA become a "loser country" like Cuba (this is an expression used by a Cuban friend from back in Orlando, Florida, home of TONS of Cubans who HATE SOCIALISM AND SOCIALIZED ANYTHING) by socializing now private services??
I think the privileges of ultra socialist states (Communism) and ultra capitalist states have one thing in common- a struggling workers class, and a very rich and privileged investor and corporate or government class. Examples are the current USA- and the former Soviet Union. One extreme system is dead- and the other? On life support.
Of course in the USA- you have all the bad things of Communism- but you do have 'private ownership' so it is probably a cross between fascism and extreme socialism- but even in fascist Germany and Italy they had free health care-unless you where a Jew, a gypsy or 'inferior' to the corporate state and regime.
Universal health care is not socialism- since you have single payer heath care in many countries of the world that have a thriving private sector.
The difference is these countries; they feel health care is a necessity- where in the USA only a privileged class is increasingly the only ones able to afford the costs and have access- sounds like the former Soviet Union in many ways- where members of the politburo and those with 'connections' had access to the better things in life-but even they had enough sense to provide universal health care.
A nation that would allow its citizens to work had, buy a home- then loose their job and health care- and because its so costly many are unable 'purchase' it- become ill, loose their home and all they worked for and end up bankrupt is a nation that lacks intrinsic humanity and moral values. In a nation where job security, health care and pensions are becoming as common as a snowflake in July- except those lucky enough, or blessed with the 'animal genetic code' to compete or those born with a silver spoon in their mouths (Bush)Who has the attitude as Marie Antoinette- 'let em eat cake'
As far as Cuba- the world health care organization rates Cuba and the USA the same regarding health care- not bad for a third world country when compared to the rich and powerful nation to the north.
But this has been the outcome of the Conservative Movement of the last 35 years. It will all end with a bang- not a whimper.
Last edited by skytrekker; 06-28-2007 at 05:03 AM..
Moore can make all the propaganda films he wants but that is all they are, propaganda. It is good to see the truth come out and not someone with an anti-America agenda.
America was not founded on the socialized concept. What amazes me is how much people complain about the government, are so quick to point of it's shortcomings and then want to entrust their own health to it. That makes no sense. Socialized medicine is not the answer, fixing what is broken is the answer.
I wonder if people realize what Cuba has meant over the past 46 years. Dictatorship, taking, not giving, from the people, millions murdered by their fearless leaders, and all in the name of the people. Seems like they have fooled a lot of people. Then again, as I have said before, Cuba's socialized medicine program includes a .45 to the head in response to a headache. God help those that support systems such as this with complete government autonomy.
The Conservatives haven't even gotten started yet. There is going to be a revolution and the country will go back to what built it up and made it great in the first place. Let the Cuba's be Cuba's, they can have it.
The conservative movement is what is broken- and like any other political economic school of thought it will ebb and flow.
Once again 'socialized medicine' or single payer health care exists in nations that have produced companies like Nokia -
Why the USA rates just above CUBA for health care; for access and quality is something that tells all; The greatest richest and most powerful nation on earth ranks this low? But how and why?
Something is wrong here- and the same old song and dance of Herbert Hoover and the rich in 1932 that 'social security' programs will not work in the USA- sound eerily the same as today - and as backward and regressive.
Moore can make all the propaganda films he wants but that is all they are, propaganda. It is good to see the truth come out and not someone with an anti-America agenda.
America was not founded on the socialized concept. What amazes me is how much people complain about the government, are so quick to point of it's shortcomings and then want to entrust their own health to it. That makes no sense. Socialized medicine is not the answer, fixing what is broken is the answer.
I wonder if people realize what Cuba has meant over the past 46 years. Dictatorship, taking, not giving, from the people, millions murdered by their fearless leaders, and all in the name of the people. Seems like they have fooled a lot of people. Then again, as I have said before, Cuba's socialized medicine program includes a .45 to the head in response to a headache. God help those that support systems such as this with complete government autonomy.
[I]The Conservatives haven't even gotten started yet. There is going to be a revolution and the country will go back to what built it up and made it great in the first place. Let the Cuba's be Cuba's, they can have it.
[/i]
the last sentence underlined of this post is most interesting.
Since this country was founded by a wealthy ownership class (males only please) that did not want to pay taxes to the British Crown- and allowed 'democracy' and voting to that same class as well- do we really want to go back to that concept? It seems that some things have not changed much since 1776- with the same group still not wanting to pay anything to anyone- but themselves. So much for the values of altruism in the American way of life.
That is what made this country 'great'- the Constitution of this country does not spell out an economic system- be in socialist or capitalist- at least the last time I checked. Good thing is the founding fathers in writing the constitution had enough of progressive vision (oops there is that 'bad word again'-) to allow change.
I would hardly want to see what this country would be like today if we remained what we where then- and should we want to go back to that time- and 'go back to the principals that made this country great?"
hmmmm
Last edited by skytrekker; 06-28-2007 at 06:05 AM..
Yep those things like hard work and free enterprise, we don't want to go back to that. We WANT to have government oppression, which is why this country was founded. It wasn't founded by people who didn't want to pay taxes to a government, they didn't want to pay taxes and have no say. (Taxation without representation... it was in all the history books) Hmmmm.....kind of seems like a liberal utopia.
We want to "progress" to being slaves to the government. We want to entrust our lives and health to Big Brother who will tell us what is best for us and we will mindlessly follow. I am sure the founding fathers has that exactly in mind when they drafted the constitution. They probably envisioned a state where people who worked hard paid taxes to support illegal immigrants and people who didn't want to work hard. That is progress for you!
I am going to get a copy of that article for my own reference because I do not have the time to critique it properly. I would like to than Skytreker for his comments.
While I was reading the article I was thinking that it would make as much sense if the authors had just substituted USA for Cuba.
We, too, are engulfed in a rapidly spreading malaise created by a socialist economy only instead of the universal socialism of Cuba we have the corporate socialism of Wall Street and Washington, DC. In either case the “owners” get the goodies and the rest get just enough to keep them from open rebellion. The last set of congressional elections were the start of a legal rebellion against the Lobbyists, the Administration and Congress that have replaced general elections as the word of the people. This corporate usurpation of power is currently being illustrated by the Senatorial tragedy calls Immigration Reform.
Weather we are Liberal or Conservative we have to take our country back from the business monopolies that have stolen it from us.
Yep those things like hard work and free enterprise, we don't want to go back to that. We WANT to have government oppression, which is why this country was founded. It wasn't founded by people who didn't want to pay taxes to a government, they didn't want to pay taxes and have no say. (Taxation without representation... it was in all the history books) Hmmmm.....kind of seems like a liberal utopia.
We want to "progress" to being slaves to the government. We want to entrust our lives and health to Big Brother who will tell us what is best for us and we will mindlessly follow. I am sure the founding fathers has that exactly in mind when they drafted the constitution. They probably envisioned a state where people who worked hard paid taxes to support illegal immigrants and people who didn't want to work hard. That is progress for you!
What about slaves to a equally corrupt corporate master?
In the end is there a difference> Not much- wake up and restore real freedom from both. Do not be blind to the fact that in the end both the private sector and government are equally bad and steal from you.
Last edited by skytrekker; 06-28-2007 at 11:01 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Sound off!
