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Old 09-01-2010, 06:48 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,742,791 times
Reputation: 9728

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I don't even share your opinion, but even if we assume some of those companies will go out of business, isn't that what conservatives (I assume you are one given your remarks on liberals) say the economy is about? Supply and demand? Who doesn't adapt to changing demand deserves to go out of business and others will take their places?

And why does the state interfere? Well, because taking care of the environment is part of its job. That is why you have the EPA...
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Old 09-01-2010, 07:05 AM
 
7,331 posts, read 15,385,654 times
Reputation: 3800
Plastic bags are a serious problem, whether in our streams or making their way out to one of the massive trash islands forming in our oceans.

Maybe legislation isn't the way. To me, it's a matter of personal responsibility. I don't know when it became a BAD thing to not generate a ton of unnecessary garbage. In fact, I think the whole backlash against things like using less fuel, not using plastic trash bags, reducing electricity consumption, considering the impact of your food choices, etc., is one of the most childish things on this planet. I get that no one likes to be told what to do, but there was a time when personal responsibility was more than just a fiscal concept.

So maybe we don't need laws to make our society stop acting like a bunch of short-sighted slobbish nimrods. I just don't know that we're particularly good at changing bad habits as long as those habits are convenient.
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Old 09-01-2010, 07:15 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,742,791 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaBredChicagoan View Post
Plastic bags are a serious problem, whether in our streams or making their way out to one of the massive trash islands forming in our oceans.

Maybe legislation isn't the way. To me, it's a matter of personal responsibility. I don't know when it became a BAD thing to not generate a ton of unnecessary garbage. In fact, I think the whole backlash against things like using less fuel, not using plastic trash bags, reducing electricity consumption, considering the impact of your food choices, etc., is one of the most childish things on this planet. I get that no one likes to be told what to do, but there was a time when personal responsibility was more than just a fiscal concept.

So maybe we don't need laws to make our society stop acting like a bunch of short-sighted slobbish nimrods. I just don't know that we're particularly good at changing bad habits as long as those habits are convenient.
Good post. I don't think such laws would even be considered if politicians did not realize there is a problem.
When the catalytic converter was introduced, there was a huge air pollution problem. People knew about it, still, they did not drive less or go by bike or train instead.
People indeed do not like to change when it means having to make sacrifices. Even if they are realistic enough to realize there is a problem, they tend to think may others change, I am just one person so it won't matter if I carry on like before.
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Old 09-01-2010, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Hoosierville
17,410 posts, read 14,637,091 times
Reputation: 11610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I don't even share your opinion, but even if we assume some of those companies will go out of business, isn't that what conservatives (I assume you are one given your remarks on liberals) say the economy is about? Supply and demand? Who doesn't adapt to changing demand deserves to go out of business and others will take their places?

And why does the state interfere? Well, because taking care of the environment is part of its job. That is why you have the EPA...
That would be rigging the system and not true supply and demand.
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Old 09-01-2010, 07:18 AM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,930,375 times
Reputation: 12828
The whole thing is rather silly. Why don't the retail stores just get to gether and agree among themselves not to use plastic bags or each store make a decision based on its own conscience? That IS the way it should be done rather than another law.

The people of California don't HAVE to take plastic bags, they can request recycled paper or take their own shopping bag.
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Old 09-01-2010, 07:20 AM
 
13,005 posts, read 18,906,017 times
Reputation: 9252
If California politicians were smart, they would have imposed a tax on each bag. The State is broke and they overlooked this potential revenue source!
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Old 09-01-2010, 07:25 AM
 
45,225 posts, read 26,437,203 times
Reputation: 24980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Good post. I don't think such laws would even be considered if politicians did not realize there is a problem.
When the catalytic converter was introduced, there was a huge air pollution problem. People knew about it, still, they did not drive less or go by bike or train instead.
People indeed do not like to change when it means having to make sacrifices. Even if they are realistic enough to realize there is a problem, they tend to think may others change, I am just one person so it won't matter if I carry on like before.
Catalytic converters vs. plastic bags, is not a very relevant comparison.
In the 70's consumers were not offered a car with pollution controls or without.

People have a choice to use the bags or not or to recycle the bags that they do use and also to voice their opinions to the retailers that rely on them (i.e no likee, no shopee there).

You actually rely on politicians for an education as to what is good vs. bad based on their legislative agenda?
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Old 09-01-2010, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Land of Thought and Flow
8,323 posts, read 15,168,876 times
Reputation: 4957
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaBredChicagoan View Post
Plastic bags are a serious problem, whether in our streams or making their way out to one of the massive trash islands forming in our oceans.

Maybe legislation isn't the way. To me, it's a matter of personal responsibility. I don't know when it became a BAD thing to not generate a ton of unnecessary garbage. In fact, I think the whole backlash against things like using less fuel, not using plastic trash bags, reducing electricity consumption, considering the impact of your food choices, etc., is one of the most childish things on this planet. I get that no one likes to be told what to do, but there was a time when personal responsibility was more than just a fiscal concept.

So maybe we don't need laws to make our society stop acting like a bunch of short-sighted slobbish nimrods. I just don't know that we're particularly good at changing bad habits as long as those habits are convenient.
You took the words right out of my mouth.

While I understand that a plastic bag company can't just magically *poof* their plant into one that does fabric or paper bags... that's just an insane amount of money of work to expect of a lowly company. Though, how much work would it take to change out the type of plastic? Biodegradable Plastic Bags.
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Old 09-01-2010, 07:36 AM
 
9,803 posts, read 16,190,154 times
Reputation: 8266
Looking at the financial mess in the state of California, one would think the state legislators would be too busy working on that to waste time on "pc" things.

But, that's California.

Maybe that's why the state is in such a financial mess.
Spending too much time on political correctness instead of the budget.
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