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Smallpox blankets
Despite his fame, Jeffrey Amherst's name became tarnished by stories of smallpox-infected blankets used as germ warfare against American Indians. These stories are reported, for example, in Carl Waldman's Atlas of the North American Indian [NY: Facts on File, 1985]. Waldman writes, in reference to a siege of Fort Pitt (Pittsburgh) by Chief Pontiac's forces during the summer of 1763:
... Captain Simeon Ecuyer had bought time by sending smallpox-infected blankets and handkerchiefs to the Indians surrounding the fort -- an early example of biological warfare -- which started an epidemic among them. Amherst himself had encouraged this tactic in a letter to Ecuyer. [p. 108] Amherst and Smallpox
Genocide & Intent Of The Infected Blankets
"I will try to inoculate the [Indians] with some blankets that may fall into their hands, and take care not to get the disease myself. As it is pity to expose good men against then, I wish we could make use of the Spanish method, to hunt them with English dogs, supported by rangers and some light horse, who would, I think, effectually extirpate or remove the vermin." http://www.nativeamericannetroots.ne...ected-blankets
Your post is so full of half truths, opinions not based on facts, and an willful ignorance of American history that it would take hours to list each item you are uninformed of,however the statement you make of the Indians being subjected to bio-terrorism simply pinched a nerve.
Who made all of these natural resources "yours"? You do know another thing the white man brought was the concept of ownership. Native Americans had no concept of private ownership. So again, how was all this "yours"? And how are your views not utterly and completely racist? It sounds to me like the same argument now used by the KKK.
And just so you know, the thing about small paox covered blankets is a myth. It wasn't till a couple hundred years later that people learned how disease was spread. That being said, they did bring small pox with them. But you don't know if you would be better off had they not come. It very well could also be the case that your people could have killed each other off or died from some other cause. Would you be happier had the North African slave traders taken over the continent?
With all due respect sir, I'll try and clear up some misconceptions you and others may have. There was no concept regarding private ownership of a piece of land in North America so in that regard you are right, in a tort lawyer sort of way. No single person could lay claim to a piece of property but the tribal unit occupied a portion of the landscape for their usage and survival; communal ownership if you will. Each tribe, in general respected the other's area. So we knew the concept of ownership but owned the earth as a collective and acted as caretakers of a section. There are 6 tribes in our confederation and each has existed long before the white christian ever arrived. We fought from time to time. We didn't have TV and frankly it's hard to keep the young bucks in check. Gotta turn them loose once in a while. Our wars were not like yours or that you see in the movies. We didn't line a couple hundred men up and hack each other to bits. The labor pool was too important. pre white man, all we had were rocks lashed between a black ash handle. Most our battles ended up with broken bones and big bumps on the head. Few died. It was only later when the white christians had pushed the tribes westward and they were pressured into conflict with existing tribes that large indian battles took place. It didn't help that they now had white christian weapons also. So the whole idea the we were conducting genocide on our own kind is a myth. We lived in harmony with the earth and each other with the exception I stated. As far as natural resources are concerned, we looked on a tree as a tree and the white christian looked on it as lumber to be harvested for no other reason than profit. We only killed the extra beaver, the overstock. The White christian killed them all, for hats. We subsisted on the food that the earth gave us. The white christian cut all the trees, cleared the land and brought beasts for profit.
To claim that I'm racist and comparable to the KKK is a presumptuous statement on your part. I married white christian women, twice and the majority of the people I've known over the last 66 years are white christians. My objection is you, soapboxing all the virtues and benefits that white christians brought to the Americas. I'm here to tell you that for some of us our way of life was much better before you bestowed all your benefits of private ownership and profit and it remains so to this day.
The smallpox thing is not a myth at least not to us and handed down for centuries. Whether you brought it on purpose or by accident in your clothes the fact is, the white christians brought it and it killed many.
I suggest that you develop a measure of respect, not to me personally but to those the white christians exploited to achieve the country you have now. History is history but I feel my response is warranted in light of your proclamation that we all should be grateful for what white christians have brought to the Americas. Some of us would have preferred that you'd just left us alone.
Blacks were in fact second class citizens in this country for a hundred years after they were so generously liberated from centuries of formal slavery, and it was blacks who were finally able to put an end to that.
If you wanted to credit all these fine white Christians with something from that early era, you could at least say that they weren't really racist in that they did do white slavery for a long time before supplies finally started running low and blacks had to be brought in instead. At the time of the Declaration of Independence, nealry two-thirds of all people living in America had arrived here in some condition of servitude. That's just the sort of society it was.
I would like to thank the white Christians for all they have done for my tribe since they landed here in North America. Our lands that used to stretch from Nova Scotia along the St Lawrence River through the Mohawk Valley of upstate New York and Canada were appropiated for their use and development. They killed all our wildlife and the sacred beaver for their hats and graciously gave us small pox infested blankets in exchange. We gave them food and shelter in the long winters and in exchange the Hudson Bay Co. placed a bounty on all Mohawk men until they needed us to fight in their wars against our brothers the Iroquois. We thank them for letting us be the builders of New York City's skycrapers as we were the only ones brave enough to work the steel girders without a rope and for slave wages. And finally we thank them for giving us five square miles of useless land in exchange for our nation to continue our culture. Each day I ask myself "Where would the Haudenosaunee Tribal Nation be without the influence and largesse of the White Christian." We of the 6 tribes of the Haudenosaunee Nation meet and discuss the merits of the White Christian occupation and thank them for unburdening us of our lands and people.
Are the Republicans dreaming of a white christian?
No but there were a lot of white Republican Christians (the North) that died to free the black slaves that the white Democrats didn't want free. Ops I forgot we are not suppose to tell the truth about who really fought for the slaves.
No but there were a lot of white Republican Christians (the North) that died to free the black slaves that the white Democrats didn't want free. Ops I forgot we are not suppose to tell the truth about who really fought for the slaves.
I've heard it said that the Republicans of the 19th century are the Democrats of today, and that the Dixiecrats of the 20th century are the Republicans of today. Could you shed any light on that idea by any chance?
Did you read the original post? It has nothing to do with persecution. It has nothing to do with having it easy today.
Try reading it again.
Why don't YOU go back and try reading it again, and recognize the part where the op brings up "with all the christian bashing going on in this forum what should we be thankful to them for" Not a damn thing that's what. Human and civil rights are a GIVEN, at least for any rational, evolved and civil being. I'm not about to give props to anyone who does something that should be done in the first place. "oh, thank you dear white christian sir for giving us the right to live peacefully and without fear of harm or persecution in this country, cause you didn't have to, but you did anyway cause you're so gracious and wonderful." This should be done regardless because it's the right thing to do. Just like a father taking care and responsibilty for his child/children shouldn't necessarily be given props for stepping up and being a man, it should be a given. So again, the op trying to portray the poor underappreciated white christian is a joke.
Who made all of these natural resources "yours"? You do know another thing the white man brought was the concept of ownership. Native Americans had no concept of private ownership. So again, how was all this "yours"? And how are your views not utterly and completely racist? It sounds to me like the same argument now used by the KKK.
And just so you know, the thing about small paox covered blankets is a myth. It wasn't till a couple hundred years later that people learned how disease was spread. That being said, they did bring small pox with them. But you don't know if you would be better off had they not come. It very well could also be the case that your people could have killed each other off or died from some other cause. Would you be happier had the North African slave traders taken over the continent?
You opened this thread wanting respect and appreciation for White Christians. Not Christians, but White Christians, yet you yourself lack respect. I'll give you the benefit of doubt: maybe you've never lived among Native Americans and know nothing of our varying cultures.
First, never put all Native Americans in one box. Every tribe has their own culture, and they vary immensely. Some tribes' cultures are similar; I'm Muscogee and all of the southeastern tribes have similar cultural practices, but certainly not the same. I've lived on Northern Cheyenne reservation, and went to school there for a short while. Their culture is very different than my tribe.
I believe you don't care about being thankful. If you did you would be thankful your White Christian ancesters did not behave and live with Christian love. They murdered, raped, lied, stole, and committed heinous crimes against humanity. That is how this country came to be. By lies, murder and theft.
Oh, it didn't stop 300 years ago, either; nor 200, nor 100, nor 50, nor 25 years ago. We've come a long way since the days when my Aunts were yanked from their parents' home and shipped off to bording schools to be indoctrinated into this White Christian world, but there are battles still happening. We have to fight for every last bit of sovereignty we have.
There are many Muscogee Creeks who are Christian. I'm not one of them. However, I respect anyone that attempts to respect others, regardless of race or cultural beliefs. I don't have to respect the people who stole, lied, murdered, and raped to get the land we now call America.
Jefferson was ONE of MANY founding fathers that WERE Christian.
LOL. Jefferson was an admirer of the social philosphy of the Nazarene. He loathed the corruption of that worked by the villain St. Paul and was sharply critical of organized Christianity...
The hocus-pocus phantasm of a God like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs....In fact, the Athanasian paradox that one is three, and three but one, is so incomprehensible to the human mind, that no candid man can say he has any idea of it, and how can he believe what presents no idea? He who thinks he does, only deceives himself. He proves, also, that man, once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without a rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Rev. James Smith, Dec 8, 1822.
Meanwhile, nearly all who attended the Convention of 1787 (which of course did not include Jefferson who was in Paris at the time) were professed Christians of one sort or other and among their number were some who might today pass as fundies, and who urged a much more religious republic than what we ended up with. Fortunately, those among the founders whose names we remember both voted and shouted these forces down and secured for us the sort of secular society wherein both all religions and none may flourish.
Last edited by saganista; 09-03-2010 at 09:38 PM..
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