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Man this thread has really brought the cooks out of the woodwork.
Yes, the Native Americans did get hosed. But back then one group of people conquering another was pretty much the norm world wide. That's just how things were. I didn't write the OP with regard to Native Americans.
And yes, Blacks were wrongfully used as slaves. But that does not diminish the fact that it was largely white men, most of them Christians who are responsible for creating this great Nation of ours and they deserve our thanks and recognition.
Since I can not do a better job of explaining it, here is an article about this very subject.
I got too much going on today to get deeply into all this, but gotta make a few observations/comments...
Don't you know, Edub, that you have committed the unpardonable sin?
You actually dared -- and had the guts -- to stand up for the one demographic segment of the population of the United States it is politcally correct and permissible to disparage and slam...and blame for all the nation's historic ills.
BTW -- a few things have been said about Native American culture. Here is a book (which I haven't read myself, but intend to) that seems a well-researched work by one of the top scholars and thinkers of our time (Thomas Sowell).
While breaking treaties with the Native Americans was certainly nothing to be proud of (downright shameful, in fact), they were hardly innocents living an idyllic existence before the evil, white, Christian Europeans arrived. Many tribes regularly stole from and warred with one another, and used methods on captives (their fellows and later white and black settlers) which would make a Tower of London torture expert seem like a novice.
And lest anyone get a wrong idea, I have some Indian blood in me (not much, but some). At least two of my great-grandmothers were 1/8 Native American (Commanche and Cherokee, respectively) and I am proud of that.
Quote:
Actually, I am white but not Christian. I am also smart enough and educated enough to know not to respond to people with whom I disagree by calling them racist. That is a pathetic argument used by people with simple minds who lack the ability to respond in a more intelligent manner.
AMEN! And pun intended!
Anyway, gotta get going. But had to jot this down first. Again, my sincere respects to you, sir, for having the courage to write down what a lot of people really think and know, anyway.
Those quotes are based on forgeries created by the disgraced professor Ward Churchill. As you can see from the article below, it wasn't until much later that microbes were discovered. How was it possible to engage in biological warfare before such knowledge existed?
It doesn't take a modern man or 2 hundred years for someone to figure out pretty quick that the clothing and bedding of a small pox victim will infect anybody else using these items. Besides the point, doesn't really matter to the indian whether it was deliberate or accidental, the white christian brought the pox with them and spread it to the tribes. Results matter in forming such opinions as a sense of gratitude.
I got too much going on today to get deeply into all this, but gotta make a few observations/comments...
Don't you know, Edub, that you have committed the unpardonable sin?
You actually dared -- and had the guts -- to stand up for the one demographic segment of the population of the United States it is politcally correct and permissible to disparage and slam...and blame for all the nation's historic ills.
BTW -- a few things have been said about Native American culture. Here is a book (which I haven't read myself, but intend to) that seems a well-researched work by one of the top scholars and thinkers of our time (Thomas Sowell).
While breaking treaties with the Native Americans was certainly nothing to be proud of (downright shameful, in fact), they were hardly innocents living an idyllic existence before the evil, white, Christian Europeans arrived. Many tribes regularly stole from and warred with one another, and used methods on captives (their fellows and later white and black settlers) which would make a Tower of London torture expert seem like a novice.
And lest anyone get a wrong idea, I have some Indian blood in me (not much, but some). At least two of my great-grandmothers were 1/8 Native American (Commanche and Cherokee, respectively) and I am proud of that.
AMEN! And pun intended!
Anyway, gotta get going. But had to jot this down first. Again, my sincere respects to you, sir, for having the courage to write down what a lot of people really think and know, anyway.
Man this thread has really brought the cooks out of the woodwork.
Yes, the Native Americans did get hosed. But back then one group of people conquering another was pretty much the norm world wide. That's just how things were. I didn't write the OP with regard to Native Americans.
And yes, Blacks were wrongfully used as slaves. But that does not diminish the fact that it was largely white men, most of them Christians who are responsible for creating this great Nation of ours and they deserve our thanks and recognition.
Since I can not do a better job of explaining it, here is an article about this very subject.
Oh, I got it now. Americans should be grateful for all the WHITE Christian has done for the country with the exception of Blacks and american Indians. Got It! IMO the way things are going lately you'll probably have to include hispanics and american muslims in that group also and then who you got left? A bunch of white christians patting each other on the back for the great job they've done. I get it now.
I got too much going on today to get deeply into all this, but gotta make a few observations/comments...
Don't you know, Edub, that you have committed the unpardonable sin?
You actually dared -- and had the guts -- to stand up for the one demographic segment of the population of the United States it is politcally correct and permissible to disparage and slam...and blame for all the nation's historic ills.
BTW -- a few things have been said about Native American culture. Here is a book (which I haven't read myself, but intend to) that seems a well-researched work by one of the top scholars and thinkers of our time (Thomas Sowell).
While breaking treaties with the Native Americans was certainly nothing to be proud of (downright shameful, in fact), they were hardly innocents living an idyllic existence before the evil, white, Christian Europeans arrived. Many tribes regularly stole from and warred with one another, and used methods on captives (their fellows and later white and black settlers) which would make a Tower of London torture expert seem like a novice.
And lest anyone get a wrong idea, I have some Indian blood in me (not much, but some). At least two of my great-grandmothers were 1/8 Native American (Commanche and Cherokee, respectively) and I am proud of that.
AMEN! And pun intended!
Anyway, gotta get going. But had to jot this down first. Again, my sincere respects to you, sir, for having the courage to write down what a lot of people really think and know, anyway.
Just a curiosity question: How do you, or would Sowell, compare native american tribal cultures with the tribal cultures of the Middle East?
I got too much going on today to get deeply into all this, but gotta make a few observations/comments...
Don't you know, Edub, that you have committed the unpardonable sin?
You actually dared -- and had the guts -- to stand up for the one demographic segment of the population of the United States it is politcally correct and permissible to disparage and slam...and blame for all the nation's historic ills.
BTW -- a few things have been said about Native American culture. Here is a book (which I haven't read myself, but intend to) that seems a well-researched work by one of the top scholars and thinkers of our time (Thomas Sowell).
While breaking treaties with the Native Americans was certainly nothing to be proud of (downright shameful, in fact), they were hardly innocents living an idyllic existence before the evil, white, Christian Europeans arrived. Many tribes regularly stole from and warred with one another, and used methods on captives (their fellows and later white and black settlers) which would make a Tower of London torture expert seem like a novice.
And lest anyone get a wrong idea, I have some Indian blood in me (not much, but some). At least two of my great-grandmothers were 1/8 Native American (Commanche and Cherokee, respectively) and I am proud of that.
AMEN! And pun intended!
Anyway, gotta get going. But had to jot this down first. Again, my sincere respects to you, sir, for having the courage to write down what a lot of people really think and know, anyway.
I have given a very accurate account in this thread of the realities of tribal warfare pre-white christian occupation and post white christian occupation. One of the myths that get up the american Indian's nose more than anything is the misconception that indians were slaughtering each other before the white man showed up. As I stated, it was only afer the white man pushed the tribes westward into other tribe's territories and provided them with modern weapons that the tribes started to
annihilate each other. This is just white christian justification saying, "They would have all killed themselves anyway". Moderator cut: language of the most blatent sort.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 09-04-2010 at 02:54 PM..
Reason: Please use appropriate language
With all due respect sir, I'll try and clear up some misconceptions you and others may have. There was no concept regarding private ownership of a piece of land in North America so in that regard you are right, in a tort lawyer sort of way. No single person could lay claim to a piece of property but the tribal unit occupied a portion of the landscape for their usage and survival; communal ownership if you will. Each tribe, in general respected the other's area. So we knew the concept of ownership but owned the earth as a collective and acted as caretakers of a section. There are 6 tribes in our confederation and each has existed long before the white christian ever arrived. We fought from time to time. We didn't have TV and frankly it's hard to keep the young bucks in check. Gotta turn them loose once in a while. Our wars were not like yours or that you see in the movies. We didn't line a couple hundred men up and hack each other to bits. The labor pool was too important. pre white man, all we had were rocks lashed between a black ash handle. Most our battles ended up with broken bones and big bumps on the head. Few died. It was only later when the white christians had pushed the tribes westward and they were pressured into conflict with existing tribes that large indian battles took place. It didn't help that they now had white christian weapons also. So the whole idea the we were conducting genocide on our own kind is a myth. We lived in harmony with the earth and each other with the exception I stated. As far as natural resources are concerned, we looked on a tree as a tree and the white christian looked on it as lumber to be harvested for no other reason than profit. We only killed the extra beaver, the overstock. The White christian killed them all, for hats. We subsisted on the food that the earth gave us. The white christian cut all the trees, cleared the land and brought beasts for profit.
To claim that I'm racist and comparable to the KKK is a presumptuous statement on your part. I married white christian women, twice and the majority of the people I've known over the last 66 years are white christians. My objection is you, soapboxing all the virtues and benefits that white christians brought to the Americas. I'm here to tell you that for some of us our way of life was much better before you bestowed all your benefits of private ownership and profit and it remains so to this day.
The smallpox thing is not a myth at least not to us and handed down for centuries. Whether you brought it on purpose or by accident in your clothes the fact is, the white christians brought it and it killed many.
I suggest that you develop a measure of respect, not to me personally but to those the white christians exploited to achieve the country you have now. History is history but I feel my response is warranted in light of your proclamation that we all should be grateful for what white christians have brought to the Americas. Some of us would have preferred that you'd just left us alone.
With all the bashing I see in this forum, is there anything for which white Christians deserve our gratitude?
I would like to start by thanking them for creating this great Country of ours in which we have the freedom to express ourselves.
I would like to thank them for inventing the idea that all men are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights.
I would like to thank them for building a truly exceptional Nation that has done more to advance the cause of freedom and democracy than any other.
I would like to thank them for ending slavery even though it existed since the dawn of man.
I would like to thank them for inviting my family to immigrate into their great nation and for giving us equal rights - something they are not obligated to do and something few others will.
I would like to thank them for giving my people safe haven in the face of near extinction and for providing opportunity for us to realize the dream they invented.
I'm sure there are so many more things we should all be thanking them for and I hope every poster adds to this list. It is easy to complain that we are in some way denied the rights conceived of by the white Christians that were our founding fathers. But while lodging our complaints, let us not forget that these great men were under no obligation what so ever to extend these rights to others. The Framers could have just as easily worded the Constitution so that only their own kind would have rights as is the case in nearly every other country.
Even the concept of equality is something that was unique to the American experiment. So, when you complain of inequality, be mindful of the fact that it is only by the grace of there white Christians that you even have ground upon which to stand. Also, be mindful of the fact that you could be, if not for their grace, back in your country of origin. Something tells me few of us would rather be somewhere in Africa where genital mutilation takes place or some Muslim nation where one might be stoned for fornication.
Hmmm, I'm not really going to go into all the things that I feel like are wrong or right in these statements. I'd just like to say that if you had any intentions besides stirring up drama or arguing for the sake of...who knows what, could you point out what they were?
You're wording and tone in all of these statements above send a feeling of not only appreciation, but admiration and superiority of the White Christian man over everyone else in history who could not achieve all these things stated above. All with a hint of patronization and the backdrop of the very eventful history of America. A history so convoluted and with so many twists and turns that it can be seen in thousands of perspectives.
Honestly, it's just seems like you're baiting people for a race and religious argument. So again, did you really just have intentions of praising this very specific race and religion in history? If so, go ahead, more power to you. If not....
Last edited by 7Millionaire7; 09-04-2010 at 03:38 PM..
Reason: spelling error
I don't thank anyone for being white. Or Christian.
Or any other race or religion for that matter.
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