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Of course, but still, the problems remain. I don't see how what you say changes anything. When they are only objective statistics, they might very well be suited to help a potential emigrant make up their mind. If I am a parent to whom education is most important I might conclude from those statistics that the US is not the ideal place to go.
Comparison is the only purpose of such rankings as the numbers as such don't mean anything.
The rating obviously does not mean that you should move to Finland. I am an American to whom education is extremely important (in fact, I work in education on our home turf). I don' t think the finding s serve as a checklist for new emigres but more an analysis of how different societies treat individuals. You don't have to be so defensive. Theres actually stuff to be learned here. Education in parts of the Usa is NOT at an optimum. That is A FACT. Learning from other regions, or other US states is not a bad idea.
If we can all get over our defensiveness and trigger happy comments against posters we think are criticizing us perhaps we can get to the meat of the discussion. In this thread, the meat is, what makes a country good? ALL of it's citizens LITERATE. All of its citizens employed, engaged, involved. No country is perfect. Its about thinking about making the one you live in better.
Apparently those that made up those high suicide numbers didn't think so.
I was being crass when I said that. In fact, it has been speculated that the US has even higher numbers but Finland (and Sweden and Norway and Denmark) typically are so honest in their "numbers" that we see a higher count of suicide from them. If , for example, the US and Russia were more honest about their numbers and rates of suicide they would easily top the Scandinavian countries.
And with the rate that Americans are popping pharmaceuticals, I would really say its not long before our rate of suicide tops other countries easily.
I like America. But Minethatbird, why do you ceaselessly challenge my posts. Have you no insightful comments to make about our country and how it can grow and change???
Without knowing why country A has fared better than country B there is nothing one can learn from those rankings. Since the US for instance has a mix of private and public schools, there is not much they can learn from a country where schooling is all public and centralized.
I remember the fuss there was in Germany when the first Pisa rankings were published and Germany did not do so well. When they looked closer they found out that the results were very inconsistent across Germany, whose 16 states all have their own school systems and cling to them for ideological reasons no matter if they got good or bad results.
Or look at South Korea's dynamic economy. It looks good at first glance, but who wants an economy where 20% of all exports comes from one corporation, i.e. Samsung, which abuses its power to influence politics, to put it mildly.
I was being crass when I said that. In fact, it has been speculated that the US has even higher numbers but Finland (and Sweden and Norway and Denmark) typically are so honest in their "numbers" that we see a higher count of suicide from them. If , for example, the US and Russia were more honest about their numbers and rates of suicide they would easily top the Scandinavian countries.
It has been speculated that some of those countries have higher infant mortality rates than us, but we are more honest than they are so our numbers are higher.
Do all countries use the same criteria? What sort of dishonesty are the US and Russia perpetrating with regards to suicides as opposed to the honest folks of Scandinavia?
Without knowing why country A has fared better than country B there is nothing one can learn from those rankings. Since the US for instance has a mix of private and public schools, there is not much they can learn from a country where schooling is all public and centralized.
I remember the fuss there was in Germany when the first Pisa rankings were published and Germany did not do so well. When they looked closer they found out that the results were very inconsistent across Germany, whose 16 states all have their own school systems and cling to them for ideological reasons no matter if they got good or bad results.
Then maybe look closer at the Newsweek process and how they came to their results to confirm your suspicion that this is hogwash.
I've worked in many school districts in America as a teaching assistant and have been shocked to enter 8th grade and high school classes where students could not write a 1 page essay on their own, without extensive pilfering from Wikipedia. If you think education in America is ok, I feel sorry for you. At the end of the day, this is not about comparing with other countries, but elevating ourselves and improving our systems. If American citizens continue to think that everything is ok and ignore the fact of unacceptable illiteracy rates in our own population then I can only say we bring downfall on ourselves.
Like any "Best" contest, there is much debate to be had about the results. But I am sure that Newsweeks findings (late August 2010 mag) should provide some fodder for good discussion:
These surveys are so flawed, it's hard to know where to start commenting.
For example, they use "Average number of years that a person can expect to live in full health" as their measure of health care. This is an almost useless statistic as it ignores the most important factor in healthy living - your ancestors. You can ask any life underwriter or actuary what the most important factor is in determining a person's projected life span and they will tell you it;s genes.... and what your inherited from your parents. So, examine Finland and some of these other countries and you will see that they don't have many people from races with bad health genetics. I would wager that Fins living in the US live just as long as Fins living in Finland.
I expect that if you examine other factors in the Newsweek study you will find similar bias and flaws.
Forget Russian numbers, they are always worse than reported.
One could see the PR department in action recently during the wildfires. For weeks they lied to citizens and the press about the number of deaths.
It has been speculated that some of those countries have higher infant mortality rates than us, but we are more honest than they are so our numbers are higher.
Do all countries use the same criteria? What sort of dishonesty are the US and Russia perpetrating with regards to suicides as opposed to the honest folks of Scandinavia?
If you expect me to prove the truth of statistics, forget it.
The idea that Scandinavian countries have a higher infant mortality rate than the US seems strange, but if you can prove it and it is true, ok, I believe it.
As far as the suicide. When a person dies, there is a process for logging how it happens. There has been dialouge about how Scandinavian countries are more likely to log a suicide as it is determined whereas other countries are less likely to report actual rates of suicide.
Then maybe look closer at the Newsweek process and how they came to their results to confirm your suspicion that this is hogwash.
I've worked in many school districts in America as a teaching assistant and have been shocked to enter 8th grade and high school classes where students could not write a 1 page essay on their own, without extensive pilfering from Wikipedia. If you think education in America is ok, I feel sorry for you. At the end of the day, this is not about comparing with other countries, but elevating ourselves and improving our systems. If American citizens continue to think that everything is ok and ignore the fact of unacceptable illiteracy rates in our own population then I can only say we bring downfall on ourselves.
Oh, I never said I thought education in the US is ok. I believe you that there are very bad schools, just like there are excellent schools. Makes me wonder how many and which schools they picked for their ranking...
Oh, I never said I thought education in the US is ok. I believe you that there are very bad schools, just like there are excellent schools. Makes me wonder how many and which schools they picked for their ranking...
Well, the disparity probably played into the rankings . Countries that ranked high on education probably had more uniformity across school rankings and test results.
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