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I'm not going to return your insults, calling me a liar, because I think you are just another misinformed person.
You stated that nowhere in the Quran did it call for the killing of non-beleivers or infidels (Christians, Jews, other) and I carefully considered the possibility that you were just poorly informed.... BUT, given the shear volume of over 100 passages that do EXACTLY that, (several examples of which I posted) simple ignorance is highly unlikely.
I also understand that Islam says it's OK to LIE to the Infidel .... so, I, the "infidel" reserve the right to call out the lie when I see it. If you find that "insulting", the best advice I can give you is to STOP making blatantly false statements, because I find it insulting to be lied to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aehussein
Taken out of context, (Quran 8:5 to 8:18) The verses are specific to the battle of Badr (http://www.al-islam.org/history/history/badr.html. - broken link), a key battle in Islamic history.
Taken out of context: Quran (9:1) to (9:13) talks about a treaty that was held between the prophet and the people of Mecca, the orders to fight and to cease are bounded withing the boundaries of the treaty and the conditions that surrounded it, here is the full text:Here (http://www.jannah.org/qurantrans/quran9.html - broken link)
If you knew that and you still took the single verse, then you are trying to deceive your audience, that is not decent nor honest, and is defined as "lying to the people"., if you didn't and you just went to some website and took what was written there without researching it, then you ignorance and bias is your sickness and you need to get over it.
Here is the evidence of purposeful deception, rather than simple ignorance. The old "Out of Context" claim .... and it really is a LAUGHABLY LAME defense. Apparently, these commands to "kill the infidel" is associated with battle and warfare, which somehow provides the "proper context", and makes it OK?
Look, Islam was a creation of Muhammed to rally support for his blood lust desires for conquest, and Muslim invasion and rampaging murder transpired during the periods between the 600's AD to the 1400's virtually non-stop, and is WELL DOCUMENTED, encompassing vast territories, from the middle east, to Iberian continent ... Africa ... to China ...
It is totally ABSURD to legitimize this premise that "All's fair in war" when it comes from the transgressors and invaders themselves. All might be fair when in the context of self defense, but not in the case of aggression and invasion, while ethnically cleansing vast populations of Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and anyone else unfortunate enough to come into the crosshairs of Muslim expansionist desires.
It's amazing to me that anyone can rationalize this to the point of labeling these murderous marauders as some sort of "HIGH MINDED" peace loving messengers who simply wanted to spread the word of God. What a load of crap is this?
I call Bull$it .... and it plainly is just that, and absolutely nothing more than that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aehussein
The word fight includes all kinds of struggle to reach a goal, struggle by word, by funds, by soul and of course by force , the key behind understanding this verse in the right context, and I'm here referring to the authenticated interpretations of the Quran by the most acknowledged scholars, is the condition of people that are being called, for example, in the world of today, where freedom of speech is granted in the west,so using force to ensure freedom of speech and/or belief in such case is not valid from an Islamic perspective, it is considered transgression that is punishable by the laws of Islam itself, because it loses the meaning and the fairness of the message, the fight in such condition is the struggle of words and thoughts, back in these times, with the known transgression of the Roman and the Persian empire against other beliefs, even to other christian sects, and their killing of the Muslim preachers and messengers, made the fight to go up to a physical struggle as a result of physical transgression.
I highlighted two statements above to demonstrate and bring focus to the point that you so desperately attempt to obfuscate ... first, you want us to allow you and your Muslim "scholars" to redefine the word "Fight" to include non violent activities to reach "a goal" .... but you leave out what that "GOAL" actually IS ... it IS the goal of CONQUEST. Slightly important ... don't you think?
The second bolded sentence suggests that only the "most acknowledged scholars" (Muslim Clerics) are capable of interpreting and "authenticating" the Quran's verses .. and that we should all defer to their explanations. What a JOKE!!! Come on ... folks, are you understanding what is being said here? These Muslim "Experts" are the ONLY one's that have an "AUTHENTIC" opinion ... everyone else's opinion is just not real.
Sure, let's also allow only Hitler's opinions and descriptions of Mein Kampf to be "valid"... after all, he wrote it, so he should know best?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aehussein
Jizyah is a tax system in the regions that were added to the Muslim state by means of force, a non Muslim pays Jizyah , exempted from which are the poor , the women , the children and in some cases was the whole nonmuslim population in times of hunger or economic hardships either on the state level or on the personal level. the amount was really very low and insignificant, you can review this if you wanted. Muslims in the same state were required to pay the Zakat, which is also a tax that is a percentage of wealth that goes to something like the federal reserve today and it is used for public spending which , in a lot of cases , had non Muslims benefit directly from it , although they were exempted from this tax.
Please also note that and as described in the first point regarding this verse, the concept of Jizyah in today's world is not valid as the means are not physical, all citizens are under a form of constitution that requires everyone to pay taxes, that is even in Muslim majority countries
More mental gymnastics ... "Jizyah" was protection money ... pay up, or lose your head to your Muslim Masters ... that IS WHAT IT IS, no matter how you twist and spin.
There are countless examples of how Islam views and treats non-Muslims as lessor human beings ... from the very term "Infidel" applied to them, to the considerable depths to which Sharia Law makes such distinctions. In Islam, all men are NOT CREATED EQUAL. Jizyah is just ONE EXAMPLE of extortion under threat of murder directed at non-muslims.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aehussein
That is similar to cursing the disbelievers in the Torah, the verse is the Words of God, there is no call to fight or destroy, It is God's statement.
I don't think drawing a comparison to the Torah helps make your case. The Old Testament is rife with murderous declarations and commands to employ what today would be considered crimes against humanity ... scorched earth acts which resulted in the most horrific levels of death .. killing of every breathing thing, man, woman, child or beast ... leave nothing alive.
Just like the Quran, these are supposed to be the words of God? I don't think so ... at least not MY GOD ... MY GOD would not command the killing of children ... YOUR GOD apparently does, at least according to Muhammed, who also claims the act of molesting 9 year old girls an act sanctioned by God too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aehussein
Same (9:29), the physical fight was specific to that time, under the said conditions, the general order of struggle is explained the same way.
"So obey not the disbelievers, but strive against them (by preaching) with the utmost endeavor, with it (the Quran)"
Strive doesn't imply any violent meaning.
Once again, here you spin and twist .... and for someone who is so quick to claim that statements are being taken out of context ... the context to the entire Quran is the spread of Islam by whatever means necessary ... and if only the "conquered" would simply lay down and accept their subjugation at the hands of these peaceful Muslims, there would be no need for violence?
This is your story, and you are certainly sticking to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aehussein
The verse is a statement by God, telling future to the prophet, regarding the people who showed belief while they were working secretly to demolish the sate, The prophet didn't know about them, but God did know what they were hiding, they were traitors to the constitution of the first Muslim state in Medina, compare to when a us citizen, swears allegiance to the US and then found guilty with plotting against the country he swore allegiance to, the punishment by modern secular constitutions is to execute or imprison for life, and it is widely accepted because it endangers the nations security.
According to who? Muhammed? Beautiful. Ain't that a peach ... Muhammed says, don't blame me .. these are God's words that he whispered in my ear ... and who am I, or you for that matter to question God?
I call Bull$ht again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aehussein
That is correct, in battle fields though, and not in general, generally muslims are ordered by the text of this verse: Quran (60:8) (Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity.) and Quran (60:9) (It is only as regards those who fought against you on account of religion, and have driven you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out, that Allah forbids you to befriend them. And whosoever will befriend them, then such are the Zalimun (wrong-doers those who disobey Allah).
I would say that such "battles" taking place outside of Mecca would automatically make it impossible for the non-believers to kick Muslims out of their homes. They were the transgressors and conquerers ... they were the ones driving others out of THEIR HOMES ... so again ... this little thing you have for "CONTEXT" is rather selective, don't you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aehussein
Refer to the meaning of fight: strive, struggle
All Abrahamic religions promised this day,Armageddon as in the old testament,but from an Islamic perspective.
Yes, we've already covered this thing "strive". And as I have stated in previous posts, Islam is a creation of ONE MAN, who chose to piggyback his new creation upon already established religious scriptures, ostensibly to derive some form of legitimacy .... while later declaring all of these scriptures null and void as he might find convenient to do (selectively), claiming that any contradictions are nothing more than God changing his mind ... something God seems to do with relative abandon, it would seem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aehussein
Means that his victory comes from the fear in his enemies' hearts that is Imposed by God, and not what you are trying to impose as the word Terror of nowadays.
If nothing else, you certainly are consistent. Strike Terror in the hearts of the enemy redefined ... and such terror is once again coming from God, and not the prospect of having one's head lopped off by a marauding Muslim conquerer. Brilliant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aehussein
B
Fight as strive against, or it would have been said like" to force people to say....."
Funny thing that you didn't run into the definition of the word Jihad even though it is a very famous expression, Jihad is a broader form of struggle, Jihad of the soul is the highest, where you struggle within your own self to forbid it from committing sins,basically it is the challenge by wining which you are granted the satisfaction of God.
Jihad also can mean the word fight as mentioned above.
Jihad....
Here it is meant by the fight to spread the word, as considered if you didn't want to spread the word then means that you don't care " Hypocrite".
Fella, we know what the word "Jihad" means. So stop wasting your time trying to convince us that putting lipstick on a pig somehow transforms the pig into a princess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aehussein
I tried to point out your points as best as I can, discussion is still open if there is something you cannot get,I cannot understand why are you using slur words , maybe it is part of your culture.
Islam , as the final religion constitutes not a only a practice of worship, but a complete way of life, thorough to every detail in a humans life , so it has teachings for running an individuals life and also of the whole community, the written constitution is the Quran.
The Prophet wasn't only meant to deliver the word of god, but also to lead establish and lead the state , where the constitution will prevail, this is why there are passages in the Quran that talk about procedures to deal with traitors and enemies of the state.
THANK YOU for the first example of honesty.... And THERE YOU HAVE IT FOLKS ! This is what I've been saying all along. Islam is NOT JUST A RELIGION, but is a total way of life .... and according to "aehussein" it is the "Final Religion" ... and it's teachings demand conformance right down to "every detail of human life", "running an individual's life", and has "procedures" to deal with "traitors" (read: those who refuse to allow Islam to "RUN" every detail of their lives).
I, as would anyone who values freedom and individual self determination categorically reject this affront to human dignity posed by Islamic Fascism ... this theocratic dictatorship that wishes to impose it's will upon ALL PEOPLE on earth, as is so clearly enunciated by the unwitting confessions here.
This last portion of the quoted text completely unveils the previously quoted obfuscations and deceptions for what they are .... lies and double talk.
Folks, Muslims have made the conscious decision to forfeit their rights to self determination, and freely submit to the all powerful Islamic system to dictate to them how to live and run every facet of their lives. And they are convinced that this is really the only way to live ... not just for themselves, but for everyone.
This of course must not be openly discussed and admitted to non-muslims, and especially westerners, because they understand just how unpalatable this philosophy is to us, and they realize that to be completely honest about that would be unwise. They understand that we whole heartedly find this fundamentally repugnant. This is WHY deception is a central point in all discussion of Islam by Muslims with non-Muslims.
DON'T FALL FOR IT. It is, by definition an endless course of lies and deceptions.
You stated that nowhere in the Quran did it call for the killing of non-beleivers or infidels (Christians, Jews, other) and I carefully considered the possibility that you were just poorly informed.... BUT, given the shear volume of over 100 passages that do EXACTLY that, (several examples of which I posted) simple ignorance is highly unlikely.
I also understand that Islam says it's OK to LIE to the Infidel .... so, I, the "infidel" reserve the right to call out the lie when I see it. If you find that "insulting", the best advice I can give you is to STOP making blatantly false statements, because I find it insulting to be lied to.
Here is the evidence of purposeful deception, rather than simple ignorance. The old "Out of Context" claim .... and it really is a LAUGHABLY LAME defense. Apparently, these commands to "kill the infidel" is associated with battle and warfare, which somehow provides the "proper context", and makes it OK?
Look, Islam was a creation of Muhammed to rally support for his blood lust desires for conquest, and Muslim invasion and rampaging murder transpired during the periods between the 600's AD to the 1400's virtually non-stop, and is WELL DOCUMENTED, encompassing vast territories, from the middle east, to Iberian continent ... Africa ... to China ...
It is totally ABSURD to legitimize this premise that "All's fair in war" when it comes from the transgressors and invaders themselves. All might be fair when in the context of self defense, but not in the case of aggression and invasion, while ethnically cleansing vast populations of Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and anyone else unfortunate enough to come into the crosshairs of Muslim expansionist desires.
It's amazing to me that anyone can rationalize this to the point of labeling these murderous marauders as some sort of "HIGH MINDED" peace loving messengers who simply wanted to spread the word of God. What a load of crap is this?
I call Bull$it .... and it plainly is just that, and absolutely nothing more than that.
I highlighted two statements above to demonstrate and bring focus to the point that you so desperately attempt to obfuscate ... first, you want us to allow you and your Muslim "scholars" to redefine the word "Fight" to include non violent activities to reach "a goal" .... but you leave out what that "GOAL" actually IS ... it IS the goal of CONQUEST. Slightly important ... don't you think?
The second bolded sentence suggests that only the "most acknowledged scholars" (Muslim Clerics) are capable of interpreting and "authenticating" the Quran's verses .. and that we should all defer to their explanations. What a JOKE!!! Come on ... folks, are you understanding what is being said here? These Muslim "Experts" are the ONLY one's that have an "AUTHENTIC" opinion ... everyone else's opinion is just not real.
Sure, let's also allow only Hitler's opinions and descriptions of Mein Kampf to be "valid"... after all, he wrote it, so he should know best?
More mental gymnastics ... "Jizyah" was protection money ... pay up, or lose your head to your Muslim Masters ... that IS WHAT IT IS, no matter how you twist and spin.
There are countless examples of how Islam views and treats non-Muslims as lessor human beings ... from the very term "Infidel" applied to them, to the considerable depths to which Sharia Law makes such distinctions. In Islam, all men are NOT CREATED EQUAL. Jizyah is just ONE EXAMPLE of extortion under threat of murder directed at non-muslims.
I don't think drawing a comparison to the Torah helps make your case. The Old Testament is rife with murderous declarations and commands to employ what today would be considered crimes against humanity ... scorched earth acts which resulted in the most horrific levels of death .. killing of every breathing thing, man, woman, child or beast ... leave nothing alive.
Just like the Quran, these are supposed to be the words of God? I don't think so ... at least not MY GOD ... MY GOD would not command the killing of children ... YOUR GOD apparently does, at least according to Muhammed, who also claims the act of molesting 9 year old girls an act sanctioned by God too.
Once again, here you spin and twist .... and for someone who is so quick to claim that statements are being taken out of context ... the context to the entire Quran is the spread of Islam by whatever means necessary ... and if only the "conquered" would simply lay down and accept their subjugation at the hands of these peaceful Muslims, there would be no need for violence?
This is your story, and you are certainly sticking to it.
According to who? Muhammed? Beautiful. Ain't that a peach ... Muhammed says, don't blame me .. these are God's words that he whispered in my ear ... and who am I, or you for that matter to question God?
I call Bull$ht again.
I would say that such "battles" taking place outside of Mecca would automatically make it impossible for the non-believers to kick Muslims out of their homes. They were the transgressors and conquerers ... they were the ones driving others out of THEIR HOMES ... so again ... this little thing you have for "CONTEXT" is rather selective, don't you think?
Yes, we've already covered this thing "strive". And as I have stated in previous posts, Islam is a creation of ONE MAN, who chose to piggyback his new creation upon already established religious scriptures, ostensibly to derive some form of legitimacy .... while later declaring all of these scriptures null and void as he might find convenient to do (selectively), claiming that any contradictions are nothing more than God changing his mind ... something God seems to do with relative abandon, it would seem.
If nothing else, you certainly are consistent. Strike Terror in the hearts of the enemy redefined ... and such terror is once again coming from God, and not the prospect of having one's head lopped off by a marauding Muslim conquerer. Brilliant.
Fella, we know what the word "Jihad" means. So stop wasting your time trying to convince us that putting lipstick on a pig somehow transforms the pig into a princess.
THANK YOU for the first example of honesty.... And THERE YOU HAVE IT FOLKS ! This is what I've been saying all along. Islam is NOT JUST A RELIGION, but is a total way of life .... and according to "aehussein" it is the "Final Religion" ... and it's teachings demand conformance right down to "every detail of human life", "running an individual's life", and has "procedures" to deal with "traitors" (read: those who refuse to allow Islam to "RUN" every detail of their lives).
I, as would anyone who values freedom and individual self determination categorically reject this affront to human dignity posed by Islamic Fascism ... this theocratic dictatorship that wishes to impose it's will upon ALL PEOPLE on earth, as is so clearly enunciated by the unwitting confessions here.
This last portion of the quoted text completely unveils the previously quoted obfuscations and deceptions for what they are .... lies and double talk.
Folks, Muslims have made the conscious decision to forfeit their rights to self determination, and freely submit to the all powerful Islamic system to dictate to them how to live and run every facet of their lives. And they are convinced that this is really the only way to live ... not just for themselves, but for everyone.
This of course must not be openly discussed and admitted to non-muslims, and especially westerners, because they understand just how unpalatable this philosophy is to us, and they realize that to be completely honest about that would be unwise. They understand that we whole heartedly find this fundamentally repugnant. This is WHY deception is a central point in all discussion of Islam by Muslims with non-Muslims.
DON'T FALL FOR IT. It is, by definition an endless course of lies and deceptions.
AND I REST MY CASE.
Absolutely awesome post ....tried to rep you again and couldn't, of course.
There is a frightening number of posters here who are blindly walking right over the cliff in their zealous protection of Islam from any and all criticisms. They need to read this and think . You've covered it all so well that there is just nothing more to say but THANK YOU!
Americans who value freedom of expression should be outraged that one of our own citizens has to go into hiding because of Islamic terrorist threats against her, in her own country, and the media completely ignores her plight.
Americans who value freedom of expression should be outraged that one of our own citizens has to go into hiding because of Islamic terrorist threats against her, in her own country, and the media completely ignores her plight.
Performing a navigation through the CPJ website, will provide the most recent numbers and the reasons for their deaths. They are trying to do their jobs and without loosing their heads.
Quote:
insurgents specifically targeted journalists to be murdered, CPJ found in a new analysis.
ps: 831 killed since 1992. Molly, she isn't alone.
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 09-22-2010 at 01:02 PM..
Reason: ps
[quote=GuyNTexas;15988080]You stated that nowhere in the Quran did it call for the killing of non-beleivers or infidels (Christians, Jews, other) and I carefully considered the possibility that you were just poorly informed.... BUT, given the shear volume of over 100 passages that do EXACTLY that, (several examples of which I posted) simple ignorance is highly unlikely.
Quote:
I also understand that Islam says it's OK to LIE to the Infidel
Wrong, Islam doesn't say that. please illustrate where you learned that, or it is considered a false allegation.
Quote:
.... so, I, the "infidel" reserve the right to call out the lie when I see it. If you find that "insulting", the best advice I can give you is to STOP making blatantly false statements, because I find it insulting to be lied to.
This is against the freedom of speech, it also contradicts the concept of "Debate"
Quote:
Here is the evidence of purposeful deception, rather than simple ignorance. The old "Out of Context" claim .... and it really is a LAUGHABLY LAME defense. Apparently, these commands to "kill the infidel" is associated with battle and warfare, which somehow provides the "proper context", and makes it OK?
Look, Islam was a creation of Muhammed to rally support for his blood lust desires for conquest, and Muslim invasion and rampaging murder transpired during the periods between the 600's AD to the 1400's virtually non-stop, and is WELL DOCUMENTED, encompassing vast territories, from the middle east, to Iberian continent ... Africa ... to China ...
Prove that with incidents.
I
Quote:
t is totally ABSURD to legitimize this premise that "All's fair in war"
That is not valid in Islam, Islam teaches war morals, the Prophet orders to every army that went out to War was "Don't harm the unarmed, the non fighter, neither Women, children, nor old people, don't burn lands, or cut a tree).
Quote:
when it comes from the transgressors and invaders themselves. All might be fair when in the context of self defense, but not in the case of aggression and invasion, while ethnically cleansing vast populations of Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and anyone else unfortunate enough to come into the crosshairs of Muslim expansionist desires.
Ethnic cleansing is a funny claim, the closest i can recall was by Orthodox christian Serbs against Bosnian Muslims, in Bosnia, and in Kosova, please give us an example of your alleged ethnic cleansing by Muslims, or you allegations are proven false.
Quote:
It's amazing to me that anyone can rationalize this to the point of labeling these murderous marauders as some sort of "HIGH MINDED" peace loving messengers who simply wanted to spread the word of God. What a load of crap is this?
I call Bull$it .... and it plainly is just that, and absolutely nothing more than that.
Again plain allegations that don't count in a debate, I think you also like to see the cuss words written, I wonder what kind of personality is that but I advice you to cease.
Quote:
I highlighted two statements above to demonstrate and bring focus to the point that you so desperately attempt to obfuscate ... first, you want us to allow you and your Muslim "scholars" to redefine the word "Fight" to include non violent activities to reach "a goal" .... but you leave out what that "GOAL" actually IS ... it IS the goal of CONQUEST. Slightly important ... don't you think?
Looks like you need to work on your own English.
Here is the definition of the word fight from the merriam-webster dictionary:
1fight
verb \ˈfīt\ fought\ˈfȯt\fight·ing Definition of FIGHT
intransitive verb
1 a: to contend in battle or physical combat; especially: to strive to overcome a person by blows or weapons b: to engage in boxing
2 : to put forth a determined effort
transitive verb
1 a (1): to contend against in or as if in battle or physical combat (2): to box against in the ring b (1): to attempt to prevent the success or effectiveness of <the companyfought the takeover attempt> (2): to oppose the passage or development of <fight a bill in Congress>
2 a:wage, carry on <fight a battle> b: to take part in (as a boxing match)
3 : to struggle to endure or surmount <fight a cold>
4 a: to gain by struggle <fights his way through> b: to resolve by struggle <fought out their differences in court>
5 a: to manage (a ship) in a battle or storm b: to cause to struggle or contend c: to manage in an unnecessarily rough or awkward manner
— fight shy of: to avoid facing or meeting
Examples of FIGHT
When he was young he was always fighting.
He fought like a tiger.
The U.S. and Germany fought in World Wars I and II.
They vowed to fight the invaders of their homeland.
The second bolded sentence suggests that only the "most acknowledged scholars" (Muslim Clerics) are capable of interpreting and "authenticating" the Quran's verses .. and that we should all defer to their explanations. What a JOKE!!! Come on ... folks, are you understanding what is being said here? These Muslim "Experts" are the ONLY one's that have an "AUTHENTIC" opinion ... everyone else's opinion is just not real.
I'm know 100% sure that you are not doing this professionally, if you are knowledgeable about Islam as you claim, you would know that there are certain fields of knowledge and different schools of thought to interpret and relate the different verses of Quran,the occasions for which it was revealed and the teachings of the Prophet with the contemporary situations and needs of life, acquiring this knowledge is a life long effort , The alleged most acknowledged scholars are the ones acknowledged by the Muslims,and the professional non mu slims in the support of their, claims.
What your saying is totally dum, it is like you saying that you can look at an equation for example in physics and tell what it is about, without studying the principles and the scientist contributions to the field, you are very desperate to prove your stereotype and you are not exerting any serious effort to support it wit the right claims.
Quote:
Sure, let's also allow only Hitler's opinions and descriptions of Mein Kampf to be "valid"... after all, he wrote it, so he should know best?
I consider this some sort of Hallucination
Quote:
More mental gymnastics ... "Jizyah" was protection money ... pay up, or lose your head to your Muslim Masters ... that IS WHAT IT IS, no matter how you twist and spin.
Please re read my post and you will answers to refute your false allegations.
Quote:
There are countless examples of how Islam views and treats non-Muslims as lessor human beings ... from the very term "Infidel" applied to them, to the considerable depths to which Sharia Law makes such distinctions. In Islam, all men are NOT CREATED EQUAL. Jizyah is just ONE EXAMPLE of extortion under threat of murder directed at non-muslims.
Quran (49:13)O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honourable of you with Allah is that (believer) who has At-Taqwa [i.e. one of the Muttaqun (pious - see V.2:2). Verily, Allah is All-Knowing, All- Aware.)
Prophet Mohamed said:" People are equal as the teeth in a comb)
Dhimmis means non mu slims living in Muslim territories under the protection of Muslims, the Prophet said " Whoever brings harm on a dhimmi, has brought harm on myself)
These are the teachings, if someone has deviated, which is rare though, it is his own problem.
Quote:
I don't think drawing a comparison to the Torah helps make your case. The Old Testament is rife with murderous declarations and commands to employ what today would be considered crimes against humanity ... scorched earth acts which resulted in the most horrific levels of death .. killing of every breathing thing, man, woman, child or beast ... leave nothing alive.
Just like the Quran, these are supposed to be the words of God? I don't think so ... at least not MY GOD ... MY GOD would not command the killing of children ... YOUR GOD apparently does, at least according to Muhammed, who also claims the act of molesting 9 year old girls an act sanctioned by God too.
I said it is God's statement, and not an order , he is the God and he is the superior.
If you are a follower of an Abrahamic religion, then we are talking about the same god, if not then let me know.
The 9 year old issue is different, I can clear it out for you too, if you wanted.
Quote:
Once again, here you spin and twist .... and for someone who is so quick to claim that statements are being taken out of context ... the context to the entire Quran is the spread of Islam by whatever means necessary ... and if only the "conquered" would simply lay down and accept their subjugation at the hands of these peaceful Muslims, there would be no need for violence?
This is your story, and you are certainly sticking to it.
Read my post again to comprehend it right.
Quote:
According to who? Muhammed? Beautiful. Ain't that a peach ... Muhammed says, don't blame me .. these are God's words that he whispered in my ear ... and who am I, or you for that matter to question God?
I call Bull$ht again.
God's statements, and not orders.
Quote:
I would say that such "battles" taking place outside of Mecca would automatically make it impossible for the non-believers to kick Muslims out of their homes. They were the transgressors and conquerers ... they were the ones driving others out of THEIR HOMES ... so again ... this little thing you have for "CONTEXT" is rather selective, don't you think?
you obviously don't know anything about the history of Muslims, Muslims are Meccans bud.
Quote:
Yes, we've already covered this thing "strive". And as I have stated in previous posts, Islam is a creation of ONE MAN, who chose to piggyback his new creation upon already established religious scriptures, ostensibly to derive some form of legitimacy .... while later declaring all of these scriptures null and void as he might find convenient to do (selectively),
......
Quote:
claiming that any contradictions are nothing more than God changing his mind ... something God seems to do with relative abandon, it would seem.
The claim is that the previous scriptures were altered by the hands of man, that is proven by the followers of these scriptures themselves.
Quote:
If nothing else, you certainly are consistent. Strike Terror in the hearts of the enemy redefined ... and such terror is once again coming from God, and not the prospect of having one's head lopped off by a marauding Muslim conquerer. Brilliant.
You got it right this time.
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Fella, we know what the word "Jihad" means. So stop wasting your time trying to convince us that putting lipstick on a pig somehow transforms the pig into a princess.
You still using the slurs, obviously this is what you are.
What you said up there are plain accusations, I brought you proof and explanation and you till now fail to bring a single evidence where your alleged prosecution by the Muslims have taken place.
You brought verses of the Quran to support your allegations, I tried to explain to you what you are missing, yet you insist on adopting your stereotype view, the problem is yours, I'm willing to help you to get out of your ignorance,but you need to be too.
Muslims are very strongly opposed to graven images. A drawing, painting, stained-glass window, or a statue of a deity would be patently offensive, and Molly Norris obviously knew that. "Everybody draw Mohammed day" was an intentional slap in the face to Muslims. She went out of her way to offend them.
She got exactly what she bargained for.
This is not a very evolved point of view.
In this worldview, anytime someone intentionally offends another person, than any act of violence threatened or occasioned on that person is "OK" and simply waived away as "reaping what one has sown"
In that case, Mr. Serrano, artist responsible for "**** Christ" would "reap what he has sown" if he were attacked and killed by Christians.
If you burn the American flag, someone offended by that action could threaten to kill you, beat you, etc..... and it'd be alright because you KNEW your actions offended someone (most who burn the flag do so because they know how inflammatory (no pun intended) that act is to conservatives, military people, etc.)....
In the civilized world, SPEECH is and should never be met with ACTS of violence. ACTS = ACTS, SPEECH = SPEECH.
Why would I imply anything when I clearly have no problem saying exactly what I think?
You can do or say anything you please. You can fly to Saudi Arabia and drop your drawers at the gates of Medina for all I care. You must then accept the consequences of your choices, since they are driven by what is true, not by what is "right."
There is a single, foundational misconception that Americans have about Muslims, and I think it short circuits the reasoning of people when trying to get a handle on a world view that is as completely alien to our own as that of Islam. It is a falsehood that has been formally embraced by many people in a position of power, one that was explicit in the rhetoric of our last President. It is the belief that Muslims hate us because of who we are.
Nonsense. They do not care who we are. They do not hate us because of MacDonalds, or Brittany Spears, or pork sausages, or Kentucky bourbon.
Muslims do not care who we are, they care what we do.
It does not matter whether what we do is right or wrong. We may be absolutely on the side of justice, righteousness, good and light... it does not matter.
They hate us because of what we do. We know exactly what it is that we do that they hate.
So when we choose to do what we know they will hate, we should be prepared at all times to deal with the consequences.
So, according to you, those abortion doctors had it coming to them when the Christian extremist nutcases go after them. After all, those doctors knew they would be offending abortion zealots, but did it anyways. So by your philosophy, we should not feel any empathy for those doctors nor be concerned for their safety, since, according to you, they did something which they knew would offend some religious group. Right? Either you are concerned for ALL people's safety or are not. Period.
Prophet Mohamed said:" People are equal as the teeth in a comb)
Hey, A.E. Hussein let me ask you a straight forward question.
Do you condemn those Muslims who threaten Molly Norris?
Thanks.
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....tried to rep you again and couldn't, of course. 
. You've covered it all so well that there is just nothing more to say but THANK YOU!
