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Based on the recent actions of the elders, I'm calling that a negative.
The same technological and societal influences that young people supposedly have a monopoly on, are the same ones that have "spoiled" the other generations of "wisdom keepers" as well. No longer do we recount distant facts through storytelling and myth, and why should we? No longer are we forced to believe someone simply because they speak with conviction, because we can instantly check the facts.
The credibility of "the elders" as a group disappeared when others could question them and find their answers lacking. Their response remains the same as that of an angry parent losing control of the situation: "Because I said so!!" Sorry Charlie, what you said must be measured according to standing facts and rational debate. Even expert opinion must stand up to independent revue, else bias may creep in. That bias is on full display right now, with your gross claim that "most of us are smarter than most of you." Really.
Defining IQ is tricky enough.. Let's talk about smart.
Would a smart generation bring about a global depression while in power? Would a smart generation do absolutely nothing while the education system fell apart, and then blame the kids for being "Dumb?" Would a smart generation rob Social Security to pay for two wars, devalue our currency, and go on a borrowing and spending spree of epic proportions, and then accuse the young of not being fiscally responsible??
That's called projecting, and the oldest generations have mastered the art. Do something despicable, then accuse others of the exact same thing you are responsible for. Anything besides taking ownership of your own failures and mistakes. ANYTHING besides admitting that the nation you leave behind will be, for the first time in it's proud history, much weaker and poorer than when you enjoyed it. Indebted to foreign powers, unable to solve the simplest domestic problems, and on a downward spiral towards second-world status.
But it's ok, blame it on the young! The culture you force-fed to the young while they were growing up? Yeah, it's their fault it was so violent and sexual! The young soldiers that signed up for a fool's errand in the middle east? It's THEIR fault the war has been a complete disaster, spilling 3 trillion dollars of our treasure in the sand.
The s*** is stacked so high in this country you need wings to rise above it! The newest crop of citizens has their work cut out for them, and it will take decades to repair the mess. They are up for the challenge, even while their elders leave the sick, dessicated remnants of the workplace behind, and gloat in self-satisfied rhetoric that the young are stupid, greedy and lazy. Projection. What a wonderful feeling it must be, boomers. You had a hell of a good time while it lasted, and now your offspring is left cleaning up the house after your party, and picking up the 14 trillion dollar tab for the booze.
You didn't clearly read my post. I said most elders are wiser than most young adults. Not smarter. Big difference there. That alone negates about 50% of your rant against me and my generation.
Did I say the older generation was perfect? I. . . don't. . . . think. . . . so! Just throw a laundry list of your interpretation of the problems of today and blame the boomers. That's the spirit!
I will tell you that back when I was in college (back in the Neanderthal era) we thought our parents had screwed up royally with the war in Viet Nam and we were going to change the world, for the better. There was even a song about it.
We can change the world -
Re-arrange the world
It's dying - to get better
One of the biggest benefits to those who came after us was my generation's advocacy for reducing the voting age from 21 to 18 in federal elections. There's a song about that, too.
Lowering the voting age not only gave 18 yr olds the right to vote, it made them adults in the eye of most states. No longer could college operate dormitories as "in loco parentis" and set curfews, etc. Many states lowered their dringking age for alcoholic beverages to 18, only to raise them again as DUI deaths soared.
My generation didn't start the women's movement, but we were young women at its beginning (actually, before the voting age dropped, most of us were considered minors) and we are the ones who fought hard for such issues as equal pay for equal work, right to choose, and so on.
Get off your high horse before you fall off and break your neck.
So your idea of wisdom is working on cars, which I do much more than the average fart does to get by. I say learning computer vision is a ****load harder than that, and a skill that far fewer have acquired. Does it really even matter? Not really, neither of those things I'd really call wisdom.
You didn't clearly read my post. I said most elders are wiser than most young adults. Not smarter. Big difference there. That alone negates about 50% of your rant against me and my generation.
Get off your high horse before you fall off and break your neck.
Then replace the word "Smart" with the word "Wise" in my post. Same difference, but nice try on the verbal Ju-Jitsu!
It negates nothing. The generation in power is the one to blame. You were CORRECT to blame YOUR elders for the vietnam war which was sending you to die. I agree with that assessment, because it was true. And so you went to work and started changing things. And then something happened...
Maybe it was the improving lifestyle, or having a family, or just the signs of the times. But the boomers stopped changing things for the better, with their votes and their pocketbooks. We now live in the ashes of their (your) legacy. Would another generation of people have made different choices in the same circumstances? Maybe. We'll never know. Fact is, YOUR generation of wise+smart+savvy elders have royally torched our great nation. Teens and twenty-year olds never had the opportunity to do that.
The moment the young generation was leaving the gate to pick up the mantle of labor, the Great Recession hit them in the face like an airbag. So now, even if our country DOES pull out of this godforsaken mess, the younger generation will have lost years of potentially productive working time. The networks that would have formed as they rose in the ranks of business, will be smaller and less robust. So if the fruits of our total labor come up shorter than that of previous generations, the boomers will point and say "Oh, look, you see? They proved they were just a bunch of lazy, entitled slobs. After all we gave to them!"
I disagree. I was born in 79' and I can honestly say I've seen it all. Severe recessions, dead friends due to drugs, unemployment, great transformations of society, extreme technological advances, poverty, hunger, generations grown or growing, sectors of the economy transforming, the highly educated naive, the entitlement society, massive debts, a group of seniors dedicated to a welfare president, the first computer available to the public; and government, being trumped by modern-day cell phones... etc.
The 5,000 year leap in full action.
I was born in '79 too, and I agree on all of the things you mentioned.
I was born in '79 too, and I agree on all of the things you mentioned.
Regardless what you have seen, the time will come when you will look back and realize how little you know at 30 and how much more there is to learn, but being born in 79 you are almost grown up..
We really need to get everyone's definition of "wisdom."
If it entails historic knowledge, a skill, or just plain age, I'm not impressed. Also, it seems as though people think interaction with others and stuff you'd learn in a simple psychology 101 course is the ever elusive, magical wisdom. Really? It takes 70 years to know that people are unreliable and follow a herd mentality? Also, not impressed. What's impressive is when someone has an open mind and just learns without having to make a ton of mistakes.
The only thing that could be classified as wisdom are experiences. Although you can fast forward that process too by not being a boring stiff who works all day long. Keep in mind, there really aren't that many things to experience in this world. If you set out to see places, interact with people, do activities, you can see just about everything there is to offer within a short time span.
It seems the word "wisdom" is a way for some old fart to look back on their life and try to justify their existence. Which more often than not was quite boring and not very meaningful.
Ya need to get out more, my friend.
My hope is that your grandchildren don't look at you in the same fashion.
Then replace the word "Smart" with the word "Wise" in my post. Same difference, but nice try on the verbal Ju-Jitsu!
It negates nothing. The generation in power is the one to blame. You were CORRECT to blame YOUR elders for the vietnam war which was sending you to die. I agree with that assessment, because it was true. And so you went to work and started changing things. And then something happened...
Maybe it was the improving lifestyle, or having a family, or just the signs of the times. But the boomers stopped changing things for the better, with their votes and their pocketbooks. We now live in the ashes of their (your) legacy. Would another generation of people have made different choices in the same circumstances? Maybe. We'll never know. Fact is, YOUR generation of wise+smart+savvy elders have royally torched our great nation. Teens and twenty-year olds never had the opportunity to do that.
The moment the young generation was leaving the gate to pick up the mantle of labor, the Great Recession hit them in the face like an airbag. So now, even if our country DOES pull out of this godforsaken mess, the younger generation will have lost years of potentially productive working time. The networks that would have formed as they rose in the ranks of business, will be smaller and less robust. So if the fruits of our total labor come up shorter than that of previous generations, the boomers will point and say "Oh, look, you see? They proved they were just a bunch of lazy, entitled slobs. After all we gave to them!"
No, it's not "verbal Ju-Jitsu" (sp?). There is a difference between "smart" and "wise". I can't quite explain it, but you might realize it yourself when you get old enough to become wise.
The teens and young adults will have the next chance to "torch" our great nation. Can't wait to see how they do!
I'm not impressed with your whine about the recession. People on this board get angry when Bush is blamed, when Obama is blamed. Who is to blame? I don't know. I can tell you that the moment I "left the gate to pick up the mantle of labor", wage/price controls were slapped on most wage earners. Big whoop! Then, on the morning of my marriage, so to speak, when my husband had just finished grad school, we had the great Reagan Recession, when the Boomers weren't a majority of voters yet.
My parents before us had the Great Depression. My father graduated from high school in 1931. There was no money left for him to go to college, and there weren't the scholarships there are today. In addition, he had to support his parents and a brother who did get to go to college but couldn't find a job. So he worked and went to night school, and on the eve of his graduation, war broke out and as soon as he graduated he enlisted. That took a few years off his earnings power. My mother graduated in 1938, when things were a little better due to the social programs enacted by Roosevelt, but she still had to nanny for two years to afford tuition to nursing school. She too was affected by the war, and enlisted in the Army Nurse Corps upon graduation, losing a few years of earnings. (She got paid, but she wasn't building up seniority in a work environment.) My father-in-law couldn't find work so joined the CCC. I'm just totally not impressed with this whining by some of you Gen Xers or whatever you call yourselves.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 09-24-2010 at 04:08 PM..
While you would have been standing there not wanting to get your pants dirty, I would have been laying on my back fixing that damn car. Should I scan the manual for you? Wisdom my ass
There's still hope for you, grasshopper.
Why lay on yer back when ya can get a hoist?
Reminds me of a joke.
Two bulls sittin' on top of a hill lookin' down at a bunch of purty cows.
Young bull sez:
"Let's run down there and have our way with a cow."
Old bull sez:
"Let's walk down there and have our way with 'em all."
You know what I think? You're projecting. You may have been a foolhardy young lad back in your day, and therefore it's inconceivable that someone at that same age could be a responsible adult. I managed to avoid most of the mistakes you list (with the exception of being laid off due to lack of business). The lay-off was not due to my age or poor choices, simply being lowest man on the totem pole.
I started saving money mowing lawns in highschool. I saved frugally all through my late teens and early twenties. I don't have an STD or use drugs. I would put my own IQ above yours, with money at stake (I'm good for it). You are PROJECTING, because at my age you probably were reckless, spent all your money, experimented with drugs, etc. That's fine and dandy, some people just have to get it out of their system, but don't assume everyone else does as well.
Age / Race / Gender / Religion / Weight / Income / <fill in your favorite>. These are all brushes that people use to falsely classify and demean others. Age (like race, etc.) is irrelevant. Actions and the consequences of actions are what matter. When you see someone who is acting impulsively and irresponsibly (young or old), it's appropriate to criticize the behavior of that individual for what it is. But you take it much too far, and criticize tens of millions of people ("The Young") for something you assume they are guilty of.
The thing I find most ironic is that your whole premise is "the young" don't know very much of anything, but act as if they know everything... And that is an apt description for your own portrayal of "the young."
I am not "projecting". What I am showing you is that statistically, if you are young, you will be less reliable, more violent, and less wealthy than an older American of comparable socio-economic class.
Could there be young people who are more mature, reliable, and responsible for thier age? Sure- but on the average, this will not be true.
In general, I really cannot take younger people seriously, given the inherent problems associated with thier youth. We see this in medicine as well, in that the the young docs out of residency are (in general), much more lazy, demand more immediate gratification, and are more impulsive than our older members. They do, however, have a very fresh command of the current literature, but thier ability to implement that "fresh" knowledge is limited by lack of experience, lack of initiative, and lack of judgement.
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