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Old 09-23-2010, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,073 posts, read 26,036,019 times
Reputation: 15531

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
no, there are them, the terrorists, if you will...and no, I'm not paranoid, or afraid, what will be will be....I'm only one person, however, it will happen...they want this land, they want the world...and they will get it...if the whole world is like us...forgetful and naieve....yes, I'm sorry you do know what it's like, I dont' envy you, and you have my prayers for what you experienced that day dear lady...and it is not the same as the civil war or event of black slaves....b/c you don't know who these people are....lest we forget my son worked over there....thank God he's coming home...he said, they are worse then animals...they use children for bombs....
That type of philosophy is not the answer and has been repeated through out history. There are radical factions in the middle east and northern island that just cannot accept people that are different than themselves and the extremists on both sides are more than happy to continue this senseless philosophy.

The hope is for the moderates on both sides to prevail over their radical factions.
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Old 09-24-2010, 06:04 AM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
28,883 posts, read 30,185,296 times
Reputation: 19077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
I don't diagree with what you say about some how some muslim factions treat their women but did you see the Imam's wife or any of the other women? Do you think they behave even close to any of the extremist factions?
I don't know how many times I have to write this...?

I don't dispute, Iman's wife, or the work some Muslim woman are doing
I don't think all Mulsim's are bad people....
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Old 09-24-2010, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
28,883 posts, read 30,185,296 times
Reputation: 19077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
That type of philosophy is not the answer and has been repeated through out history. There are radical factions in the middle east and northern island that just cannot accept people that are different than themselves and the extremists on both sides are more than happy to continue this senseless philosophy.

The hope is for the moderates on both sides to prevail over their radical factions.
I'll tell you what, you go over to Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq and do a tour for 2 1/2 years, then come back and tell me the same thing...you have no idea....and that is what American's refuse to recognize, the truth, you all live in some dream fantasy world and I hate to break this to you, but some human beings are worse then animals....I'm talking about the Islam extremeists....who are real, and alive, and living right here in America, breeding and waiting...
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Old 09-24-2010, 06:13 AM
 
Location: Central Maine
4,697 posts, read 6,435,386 times
Reputation: 5046
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
I am firmly against, anything resembling a mosque be placed anywhere near ground zero, ......
Sorry - don't have time to read the whole thread, so I don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet.
Sometime in 1999, a construction electrician received a new work assignment from his union. The man, Sinclair Hejazi Abdus-Salaam, was told to report to 2 World Trade Center, the southern of the twin towers.

Over the next few days, noticing some fellow Muslims on the job, Mr. Abdus-Salaam voiced an equally essential question: “So where do you pray at?” And so he learned about the Muslim prayer room on the 17th floor of the south tower.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/ny...0mosque&st=cse
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Kentucky Bluegrass
28,883 posts, read 30,185,296 times
Reputation: 19077
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenGene View Post
Sorry - don't have time to read the whole thread, so I don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet.
Sometime in 1999, a construction electrician received a new work assignment from his union. The man, Sinclair Hejazi Abdus-Salaam, was told to report to 2 World Trade Center, the southern of the twin towers.

Over the next few days, noticing some fellow Muslims on the job, Mr. Abdus-Salaam voiced an equally essential question: “So where do you pray at?” And so he learned about the Muslim prayer room on the 17th floor of the south tower.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/ny...0mosque&st=cse
that was before 9/11 when I was so fast asleep, I didn't notice race
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,300 posts, read 84,311,090 times
Reputation: 114647
[quote=Guamanians;16006605]Even if what you say is true (that the imam wanted to counteract the haterd, etc) then doesn't the imam feel obliged to make it a peaceful project? The hatred that you speak of is directly related to the location of his planned project. So far the imam has shown no desire to listen to the millions of americans who oppose his plans based on the location of the mosque.

I never said that the imam had anything to do with 9-11. It seems like you are trying to stir something up with comments like that.[/quote]

Sorry, when you said there were 3000+ reasons for him not to build the mosque there, I thought you were referring to those who died on 9/11. My bad. I don't know what you were referring to then.

I don't know why the imam doesn't feel obliged to change his plans in view of the feelings of millions of Americans other than what he has already said. I've never met him. I would like to, though, and have a conversation with him about all this. If that ever comes about, I will let you know
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,300 posts, read 84,311,090 times
Reputation: 114647
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamSmyth View Post
Actually I would bet that many churches now require background checks for any person working with children as an employee of a church. I know my church does it.
I didn't realize that, but it does make sense.
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Old 09-24-2010, 11:17 PM
Status: "It Can't Rain All The Time" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,564,141 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
That was a good answer you were given. Yes, so what?

At any given time, it is estimated that there are about 100 serial killers in operation in the United States. Nearly all of them are white males, usually a nondescript type of person that you wouldn't look at twice on the street. Far more people are killed every year by serial killers in this country than by Muslim terrorists.

Do you live in fear that the quiet, balding, bespectacled guy who works in the corner office might be a serial killer?
We can certainly live in an awareness that it might be a possibility. Let the person first prove they can be trusted; watch for signs.

Are we now going to say that people that live in times where awareness of factors may be important, that those people live in fear?
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Old 09-25-2010, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,300 posts, read 84,311,090 times
Reputation: 114647
Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell View Post
We can certainly live in an awareness that it might be a possibility. Let the person first prove they can be trusted; watch for signs.

Are we now going to say that people that live in times where awareness of factors may be important, that those people live in fear?
Not at all. Awareness is good. We've been aware for a couple of decades now that terrorists live amongst us and are planning to do us harm. They get caught from time to time, and that should help to keep us aware. Those signs you see in every public transportation facility and in the trains and buses that say, "If you see something, say something" is exactly all about awareness, isn't it.

"If you are a Muslim I'm going to assume you're a terrorist until you prove otherwise that I can trust you" is NOT awareness. That is the very definition of prejudice, and prejudice is fear. That is no different than "If you're a black person I'm going to assume you're going to rob me until you prove otherwise that I can trust you". That sort of thinking is hurtful to innocent individuals and goes against the presumption of innocence that is such a huge part of our justice system, or is supposed to be, anyway. People have to be viewed as individuals and not automatically assumed to have sinister motives just because they belong to a particular group.

I'm going to assume here that it's not your goal to kill Muslim children and steal land that belongs to Muslims. Yet, if you found yourself in certain communities in certain parts of the Middle East, the people there would see you were an American and assume exactly that about you. You are an American, and that's what some people believe all Americans are all about. It could be very difficult for you to prove that you, "actonbell" (love the name by the way), are not out to do them harm, or that you are not a spy, etc. You are an American, and they "know" what Americans want to do to them.

Prejudice is easier. It involves less risk, but is that really the type of person one wants to be?

"Words like freedom, justice, democracy are not common concepts; on the contrary, they are rare. People are not born knowing what these are. It takes enormous and, above all, individual effort to arrive at the respect for other people that these words imply." - James Baldwin
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Old 09-25-2010, 11:32 AM
Status: "It Can't Rain All The Time" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,564,141 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Not at all. Awareness is good. We've been aware for a couple of decades now that terrorists live amongst us and are planning to do us harm. They get caught from time to time, and that should help to keep us aware. Those signs you see in every public transportation facility and in the trains and buses that say, "If you see something, say something" is exactly all about awareness, isn't it.

"If you are a Muslim I'm going to assume you're a terrorist until you prove otherwise that I can trust you" is NOT awareness. That is the very definition of prejudice, and prejudice is fear. That is no different than "If you're a black person I'm going to assume you're going to rob me until you prove otherwise that I can trust you". That sort of thinking is hurtful to innocent individuals and goes against the presumption of innocence that is such a huge part of our justice system, or is supposed to be, anyway. People have to be viewed as individuals and not automatically assumed to have sinister motives just because they belong to a particular group.

I'm going to assume here that it's not your goal to kill Muslim children and steal land that belongs to Muslims. Yet, if you found yourself in certain communities in certain parts of the Middle East, the people there would see you were an American and assume exactly that about you. You are an American, and that's what some people believe all Americans are all about. It could be very difficult for you to prove that you, "actonbell" (love the name by the way), are not out to do them harm, or that you are not a spy, etc. You are an American, and they "know" what Americans want to do to them.

Prejudice is easier. It involves less risk, but is that really the type of person one wants to be?

"Words like freedom, justice, democracy are not common concepts; on the contrary, they are rare. People are not born knowing what these are. It takes enormous and, above all, individual effort to arrive at the respect for other people that these words imply." - James Baldwin
If a person is a white person I am also aware that person may do harm. If that person is American I am also aware that American may do harm. Awareness of people does not have anything to with race, but everything to do with the actions a person takes.

Trust died among people a long time ago. Trust is earned, not freely given; it is not dependent upon race, gender or creed.

I trust the Imam is disrespecting America. I trust that because the actions he has taken, proves that to me. By my definition of respect the Imam is not showing any.

Now whether on not some one else trusts he is disrespecting American will depend on that person's 'perspective', of disrespect.

Me personally, I'm not prejudice, I don't trust any one. Not because I live in fear, but because I am aware of what people are capable of achieving within their goals.

Emily Bronte said in one of her journals. People are like cats. They are nice so as they can get what they need/want. ( the name, not to many people use the persona actonbell, however ellis is always taken)

Freedom, justice, democracy---we are not there yet. The forever changing of perspective will keep them at bay.

What we allow here to happen in America does not happen in other countries. So what is the definition of freedom when it is allowed that one person, by law, can step on the rights of another.
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