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I don't know. It is a question I am pondering and offering for discussion. Is it acceptable to refuse to provide a specific service or product while still providing other services or products to a protected class of individuals?
Looked at another way: is it legal for someone to refuse to make a rainbow cupcake for a homosexual because one does not like what it represents but accept serving the same individual something more 'neutral' like coffee?
Are they a protected class of citizen? Are they refusing service based on a class of citizen?
And I don't see a reason why a business couldn't refuse to alter their product to suit someone if they didn't want to.
Guess what - I have a DD-214, too. And they didn't ask me as a kid if I wanted my dad to do two tours in Vietnam, either.
No one can tell based on your attitude of whose rights are more precious to defend at the expense of another. Seems you missed more than a few significant lessons in service.
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Originally Posted by CharleyMcGarley
Intentionally wanting to flood a store with activists to order a certain "cupcake" to teach a lesson is harrassment.
Downgraded from wild claims of extortion. Now will I be characterized, not as a little old lady smiling at a baker asking for a rainbow cupcake, but a bloodthirsty veins in muh teeth feminazi throwing bricks through windows on main street? Your brain is a scary place.
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Originally Posted by CharleyMcGarley
But now with your new definition of abuse as being told "no", it tells me your utter lack of comprehension and life skills. NEXT!
I'm not the one having problems getting along with the general public. Anti social behavior, being oblivious to the grander context of community, doesn't impress anyone for some odd reason.
I don't believe ordering cupcakes should be mistaken as an invitation to heteros to be gay. I get the feeling they'd rather not have me standing between them, which is the point of their org. This 'oppressive force gay lifestyle shoved down peoples throats' argument is lunacy. Your power to say no-- you've mistaken what it is you're saying no to. Your boundary issues are the issue.
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Originally Posted by CharleyMcGarley
Cripes, I've been associated, worked, and lived amongst gays long before it became the in thing to have a token gay friend so you can display them in your trophy case of "tolerance"!
No friend of mine is now or has ever been token anything. However else folks live out shallow relationships with one another is their choice and more a reflection of homework they didn't do about themselves. I can only say they have no idea what depth they're missing skimming over human beings like a sound byte preying upon them with what's in it for me mentalities. In my experience it's the difference between love and infatuation. In my experience the accusations you've leveled are reliably a projection, an admission of your own shallow relationships with fellow human beings.
You claim to have lived & worked amongst gays and did the sky fall down on your head? Did you feel yourself sucked into the vortex of seduction to 'change sides'? Is it contagious? Is it OK in your mind for heteros to sexually experiment when they aren't themselves gay? Just another flavor of ice cream on the menu? Do you know it to be wrong as (presumed) hetero to engage in this cultural forbidden fruit? That really is on you and the exercise of your freewill in your own life on your own dime has always been afforded respect and support from your larger American community (even from gays). The outside world can't protect you from your own mind, your own self destructive behavior or your own lack of self discipline. Sorry, I can't help you out pal. Get help, but don't think for a minute whatever issues you've got are an entitlement to abuse others. Lob that hatred at me or anyone it will boomerang right back to you. Don't dare hide behind my skirt looking for sympathy. You aren't the victim. You are the perpetrator.
As someone pointed out before, a business does not have the right to refuse service to anyone they so desire.
The Federal Civil Rights Act guarantees all people the right to "full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin."
The fact is that they refused to make these cupcakes to someone based on their behavior which is not something that is protected under Federal Civil Rights laws. I applaud these business owners for showing some integrity in their beliefs. I do not condone the refusal of service based on race or gender or religion or any of the other items as outlined above.
Untrue. Nothing about their behavior was in question in that store. They were not committing sexual acts in the store. The definition of being gay is not lewd and lascivious behavior.
I don't know. It is a question I am pondering and offering for discussion. Is it acceptable to refuse to provide a specific service or product while still providing other services or products to a protected class of individuals?
Looked at another way: is it legal for someone to refuse to make a rainbow cupcake for a homosexual because one does not like what it represents but accept serving the same individual something more 'neutral' like coffee?
I think when it comes to issues of personal morality and our contributions to the grander context of multi cultural society there are compromises to be made by individuals. Consider the religious beliefs of Buddhists, a conscious path of 'right livelihood' for them means refraining from participation in certain professions. A Buddhist may not be a pimp and call himself Buddhist. Islam has laws about usury that prevent them from being bankers in our system and they willingly abstain. Jews observing religious law don't belong in a pork factory and so they choose to refrain from that employment. It might very well happen that these individuals picking and choosing who will and who won't be served will be faced with the choice of designing a myopic like minded community in Amish fashion or getting on the same page of free society respectfully.
If in context of Christian upbringing my boss handed down orders for me to build Hitler's war machine, armed with full knowledge in the moment I'd feel myself morally compelled to resign. The terms and conditions for employment are professionalism, leaving me the option to recuse myself. If the same Hitler war machine is industry wide, I must recuse myself from that industry. A nation that permits an industry to provide the war machine for it's nemesis needs redress in the law and I'd register my grievance to representatives. If I were wearing the CEO hat of that company I reserve the right to refuse service to build Hitlers war machine. There is a respectful way to go about things if people choose to use that path.
Gays can correct me if I'm wrong, but it stands for their right to exist. Anyone taking it upon themselves to 'vote gays out' of their citizenship can expect a lifelong argument and protest from me because nobody has that right. Nobody. Period.
No, it is symbolism just like the Nazi flag was the sign for Nazism. Should a sewing shop be forced to sew a flag for some hate group? Not at all! They should have every right to turn down someone request and that group has every right to go to another store.
Many businesses have signs saying RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE TO ANYONE. This is a case of that. There is no issue.
The radical agenda of radical gays will not stand everywhere. Get over it. Jeez!
Why do gays have to yell and scream until everyone accepts them? It's not going to happen.
No, it is symbolism just like the Nazi flag was the sign for Nazism. Should a sewing shop be forced to sew a flag for some hate group? Not at all! They should have every right to turn down someone request and that group has every right to go to another store.
Many businesses have signs saying RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE TO ANYONE. This is a case of that. There is no issue.
The radical agenda of radical gays will not stand everywhere. Get over it. Jeez!
Why do gays have to yell and scream until everyone accepts them? It's not going to happen.
Nothing about gay rights, rainbows, or rainbow cupcake symbolizes the refusal of anothers right to exist. It's quite the contrary. KKK, terrorist organizations, and radical christians (sorry, they AREN'T Christians) making declarations of hatred and intentions of annihilation deserve no protection under the law. Rejecting or abstaining from whatever you don't care for or disagree with is a vastly different thing than declaring war on an American citizen.
A gay man walking down the street is offensive to some? How about I start dictating to you that you may not be hetero? May not be christian? How about I rip that cross off your neck the way muslim majority abuse coptic christians in Egypt? THAT is religious persecution and there's no place for it here. There's no place for Christians persecuting gays either and my failure to defend either as citizen means we all lose. People trumping things up in their minds that civilization is under attack because gays exist? Come on now!
If that couple wants to refuse business, that is their choice to do so. Their business will live or die based on their decisions.
As for you deciding to make some cupcakes for the Westboro "baptists" ...hey...your choice. Personally I'd tell them where to stick their cupcakes...and I'd have the right to do so.
Now....if that business, or your business, or my business received gov't money to do the job...well, that's a different story. But as a private business, this country is built on the idea that you can run it as you see fit.
I can understand what you're saying, and I do see that in terms of rights, they have the right to refuse making rainbow cupcakes. I'm just talking about from a common sense perspective.
Where would you draw the line? Perhaps you wouldn't write "God hates f*gs" on some cupcakes for Fred and his clan. Would you treat them courteously when they entered your store? Would you charge them extra? Would you even allow them in your store?
I can tell you personally, I would draw the line where speech ends and actions begin. I would write out homophobic cupcakes, and probably even let them insult me to their heart's content, if they felt the desire to, but I wouldn't let them get violent or steal items from my store. As long as the customer is remaining peaceful I see no business reason to turn them away.
Why do gays have to yell and scream until everyone accepts them? It's not going to happen.
It's one thing to talk about "radical gays", but when you make statements like "Why do gays have to...", it sounds like you're completely anti-gay. Maybe you feel threatened by gays. Oh well.
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Your brain is a scary place. 
