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What I thought was interesting is that the men were well educated doctors. I have read that the people that are normally utilized to bring of these terrorist attacks are not well educated.
I am wondering if these men acted on their own or if they were support by Al qaeuda...has that come out yet?
I am hoping that this occurence will be another signal to the UK and the US that its open door immigration policey needs to be re-examined.
that is the goofy myth that is perpetuated, "it is just the poor dumb muslims that dont know anybetter" WRONG, binladen very educated, zarkawi very educated, when you look at the leaders, a case could be made that just the opposite is true!
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
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Originally Posted by silas777
that is the goofy myth that is perpetuated, "it is just the poor dumb muslims that dont know anybetter" WRONG, binladen very educated, zarkawi very educated, when you look at the leaders, a case could be made that just the opposite is true!
What is bin Laden's educational history? I don't recall ever seeing too much about him other than coming from a wealthy Saudi family.
Lisa yes - that was sarcasm on my part. I really need a little sarcasm smiley icon I can stick on the end of my posts. I just wanted to take the conservative position to its logical "illogical" conclusion. Not too difficult.
Now I'm really confused are you being serious now? How was this
Quote:
Why don't we just do what we did with the Japanese Americans in World War 2 and lock up every evil Muslim that is too ignorant to accept our Lord in internment camps. Problem solved.
the conculsion of the conservative position?
It just seems like a petty attempt to vilify a group of people who's views differ from yours. I think when someone stoops to that level it just reflects poorly on that person.
What's funny about that is nobody was asking us to liberate them. I think once Bush could not find any WMD, liberation was used as the war's justification, before it turned into "let's create a beautiful democracy in the middle of the savages", and now that that seems a little impractical we are at "Let's just try to make it for one more year so I can retire and play cowboy at my ranch." Or phase 4, if you will.
Now I'm really confused are you being serious now? How was this the conculsion of the conservative position?
It just seems like a petty attempt to vilify a group of people who's views differ from yours. I think when someone stoops to that level it just reflects poorly on that person.
Sprinter be careful now... you are going to hurt my feelings. MODERATOR, Sprinter is implying I am stooping and reflecting poorly on myself - DO SOMETHING!
I was just responding to the original post of the thread. Yes I am going overboard to make a point... (although we did indeed lock up all the Japanese Americans, again in the name of Patriotism and defending our Way of Life. And I bet there are some posters in this forum that would mind not a bit if we could lock up every last one of them. But I digress.)
So there are radical Middle Eastern Muslims that don't like us and do bad things. Is this a news flash? How exactly are we "apologists" supposed to react? If the premise is "See, this is why we are turning the Middle East upside down with our army and destroying the balance of power that kept the genie in the bottle, we are right and you are wrong", I would just suggest that is a completely bogus premise. Or if I am missing the point of this thread I would love to hear what it is.
Suspects are in the hands of the authorities in the London bombings, and it looks like all roads to lead to the Middle East.. .
Surprise surprise. In an earlier thread that was closed, some were offended and said those who suspected radical muslims as the culprit were "bias."
Thoughts?
Hey spunky, I was making a few points in that thread. At the end of the day, we have kinda been asking for it. If a country invaded yours, killed or maimed your family members, destroyed your home and possesions, and potentialy any hope for the future, I certainly would be wanting revenge.
Now, I don't agree with their courses of action and I hope they get what they deserve, but these are not crazy people. They are educated enough to be doctors. This behaviour is perfectly rational to them, and that is what is so scary about it.
Unfortuntely our governments are not talking about the true root of these conflicts. No 1 That western governments (especially the UK and US) have been bombing overseas for money, power and political reasons) and religion. Until we address these 2 issues head on, its never going to end.
Oh, and by the way, there is a book I have just finished by Jason Burke who talks about Al Queda as a fictional organisation used to describe any act of muslim terrorism. Very interesting read.
1)Present a misrepresentation of the opponent's position, refute it, and pretend that the opponent's actual position has been refuted.
2)Quote an opponent's words out of context i.e., choose quotations that are not representative of the opponent's actual intentions
3)Oversimplify a person's argument into a simple analogy, which can then be attacked.
I know I'm jumping in here but I am one who thinks it is probably a Muslim terrorist when I hear of a terrorist attack. yet incredible as it may seem I know that most Muslims are not terrorists and the same goes for you list of obvious examples.
Lets burn the straw man and discuss the issues.
I'm not sure how I oversimplified her statement, but I get your point. I tried to show different ways in which we all tend to lump people together and that is just dangerous. If I went the straw man path - I apologize.
To get back on topic - it does frighten me to realize that the men implicated in these recent events are well educated doctors with so many opportunities. It really turns the conventional wisdom on its head and leaves us wondering WHAT is radicalizing these successful people?
that is the goofy myth that is perpetuated, "it is just the poor dumb muslims that dont know anybetter" WRONG, binladen very educated, zarkawi very educated, when you look at the leaders, a case could be made that just the opposite is true!
I believe that the prevailing wisdom is the leaders ARE educated - I think we were talking about the followers and how they are drafted into the movement.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
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Originally Posted by Toninole
To get back on topic - it does frighten me to realize that the men implicated in these recent events are well educated doctors with so many opportunities. It really turns the conventional wisdom on its head and leaves us wondering WHAT is radicalizing these successful people?
I've often thought part of it may br simply history. As Americans we may miss some of it because we're such a young country. I wonder how history is taught in places like Damascus? Or how it affects a child when a family's oral history handed down generation to generation still contains reference to family members killed in the Crusades?
I'm certainly not trying to justify their actions but I do believe their perspective is radically different than ours.
Sprinter, I don't know what to say- you've pretty well covered it. The world, I'm afraid, is a dangerous place. True multiculturalism cannot work. All cultures are not equivalent. All of us must pursue what is good and right, while rejecting what is evil; and we can't do that until we agree on the definitions of each. PC is not only silly, but by masking the true seriousness of the situation, it can quite literally kill us. You've given me some real food for thought.
I will leave it to far clearer heads than mine to figure out a solution. Comments, anyone?
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