what can be done to reduce poverty in America? (Representatives, unemployment rate, marijuana)

[my54ford]

Originally Posted by Zimbochick
I have to disagree with this. Having children is the ultimate in selfish behavior. You have children because you want them. You want to have something that is your DNA, a part of you to continue the genes. Having a baby is not providing a gift to makind, but a gift to yourself.

I just wish more people would give it serious thought before having a family. Not everyone is cut out to be a parent, and I think most people know that about themselves. There is a lot of societal pressure to have children. People that choose not to are more often than not assumed to not be able to have children. When did not wanting children become this big deal?

Yep...I wanted to devote all my time and energy,money,life.everything, to another human being.I want to work my but off so I can provide someone else a good life and education plus leave them something after I'm gone. Pretty selfish isn't it? I'd just as soon do that for family then some unkown deadbeat on the other side of the country....... BTW Aren't you glad your parents were such selfish egotistical narcissist?

[Zimbochick]

Good grief, I could have sworn I was debating with a teenage girl before your proclaimations. My bad.

Originally Posted by ambient

Yes, in one sense, of course it is selfish. And your results will highly vary depending on the kind of people involved. But in the best sense - when you have responsible, loving parents - it's actually highly selfless as well. And it's because of something called love, which I notice that you seem to ignore....

Right , I write 2 paragraphs, and you are able to ascertain that I am a cold, callous, loveless, childless person? Wow, you're psychic , or maybe just wrong? And in my opinion love is seldom selfless. Wonderful, but not selfless.

Originally Posted by ambient

My parents took excellent care of my sister and me. Yes, they chose to have us; it was a "selfish" decision. They invested a ton in us - both personally and financially. They supported us, disciplined us, and loved us. They celebrated with us in good times and consoled us in bad times. They raised us to be whatever we wanted to be; they positioned us to go out into the world and chart our own path. And I did not come from a wealthy family; I saw time and again how my parents sacrificed for me. Their expression of love was and is selfless.

Now, my parents could have taken all of that time and money over decades and just invested it in themselves - they could have lived it up. Or they could have taken on a highly elitist view of the world and concerned themselves with their "small footprint". So tell me again: is it always so much more selfish to have kids than not to have them?

I'm now grown and married to a woman I love dearly - one who reminds me every day of the same kind of selfless love I experienced growing up. We don't have kids, and I don't know when and if we will... but I can now understand on a different personal level than ever before that having kids can be both "selfish" and "selfless" at the same time - if you have love.

I think you will find that many people here were raised in much the same way. So what? What on earth does that have to do with whether or not you should have children? The title of this thread is the reduction of poverty in America. People breeding indiscriminately, whether out of love, or lust, results in more people. If having a family is important to you, and it's planned, and you can afford it emotionally and financially, then good for you. But why would you criticize so harshly someone who has given it the same thought, and decided that it is not for them?

[Ellis Bell]

Originally Posted by actonbell

'have' or to, 'not to have' children is a personal issue and not one that any government entity should ever have the power to control. Also, it can not be something that a financial situation should dictate.

Originally Posted by pollyrobin

Talk about a selfish way to justify having a family

It's easy for us in the West to say that, with just 300,000M
people. Now try repeating what you just said with a population over a Billion

If one doesn't take into account their financial situation before having children, they are short changing their
children, are irresponsible, and treading on those that do things with forethought. You have a maternal and moral duty to provide for your own -
Pssst - it begins with YOU.

Otherwise, you are just a burden to the entire village

First off what you suggest is that the animal has the ability to fight it's own instincts, of survival through re-populated growth. Unless science has come up with something I don't know about, human beings are of the animal kingdom. Human behavior and animal behavior through instinct of their own has a will for survival by whatever means necessary.

Second, also take into account death; in that no one is immortal. So without re-population instincts, nature in time would take it's due course.

So now take into account what you just said, with a population of just two left, both male or both female. While those two may enjoy their last days on earth, it will be their last days on this earth. So---back to poverty issue solved through 0 population. And the lower form of animals, they inherit the earth. They don't need money to populate.

In conclusion, nature did not create the money system, humans did. So if they that created it, abolished it, that would take out the financial side of this population equation solving for poverty.

It is not the selfish who wish to give life, to give to those of life, but the selfish who wish to take life and have nothing of themselves to give. It is right, that some people should not re-populate.

[Opyelie]

Originally Posted by Zimbochick

The title of this thread is the reduction of poverty in America. People breeding indiscriminately, whether out of love, or lust, results in more people. If having a family is important to you, and it's planned, and you can afford it emotionally and financially, then good for you. But why would you criticize so harshly someone who has given it the same thought, and decided that it is not for them?

Exactly - talk about one poster derailing a thread to push their viewpoint regarding ZPG...........

[Zimbochick]

Originally Posted by my54ford

Yep...I wanted to devote all my time and energy,money,life.everything, to another human being.I want to work my but off so I can provide someone else a good life and education plus leave them something after I'm gone. Pretty selfish isn't it? I'd just as soon do that for family then some unkown deadbeat on the other side of the country....... BTW Aren't you glad your parents were such selfish egotistical narcissist?

You raise your family the way you choose to, and make decisions accordingly. But the wishing to have children part is selfish. Obviously apart from providing for them, what is so selfless about bringing another human being into the world? You do it because you want to. You want an extension of yourself. Why else would you do it? Why the talk about my parents? They won't decide for me whether or not I have children. Moot point if I wasn't born.....

[ambient]

Originally Posted by Zimbochick

Right , I write 2 paragraphs, and you are able to ascertain that I am a cold, callous, loveless, childless person? Wow, you're psychic , or maybe just wrong? And in my opinion love is seldom selfless. Wonderful, but not selfless.

I didn't say anything about what kind of a person you are, and I didn't say anything about whether or not you have children. I don't know a damn thing about you. Go back and show me literally where I wrote that. Why are you irrationally jumping to these ridiculous conclusions?

Originally Posted by Zimbochick

I think you will find that many people here were raised in much the same way. So what? What on earth does that have to do with whether or not you should have children? The title of this thread is the reduction of poverty in America. People breeding indiscriminately, whether out of love, or lust, results in more people. If having a family is important to you, and it's planned, and you can afford it emotionally and financially, then good for you. But why would you criticize so harshly someone who has given it the same thought, and decided that it is not for them?

I'm fine with people not having kids. Lots of people don't have kids; no problem. But it really rubs me the wrong way when someone comes in and basically implies:

"Look at ME, I'm SO selfless and evolved for not having kids - just look at my small carbon footprint. All of you who had kids are selfish, stupid people who should have known better! (Oh, and btw I'm going to mooch off of your kids' labor when I get old). Humanity is such a cancer on the planet (..but I'M still going to stick around...)."

And that's essentially what this thread has become. Advocating forced sterilization? Really? Which side was doing the harsh criticizing here?

And to those who say all that, I say once more... you know what you can go do with yourself.

[Opyelie]

Well no more kids in this country will certainly "reduce poverty" when we who are here already eventually die off............sigh

[texdav]

Basically people need to take education more serious starting with not dropping out of high school.With people seeing that they can get subsidised by governamnt entitlements its even worse on discouraging them to take it serious many times.I the end you can not legislate choices but you can discourage it bymaking survival a matter of actaully contributing. Alot get entitlemnts like food stamps;subsideised hosuig and then work for cash on the side or even worse deal drugs.

[JazzyTallGuy]

Originally Posted by Boompa

a 50% tariff on foriegn goods

Sheer genius, the United States has the biggest current account deficit of any country in the world.

[Zimbochick]

Originally Posted by ambient

And that's essentially what this thread has become. Advocating forced sterilization? Really? Who was doing the harsh criticizing here?

And to those who say that, I say once more... you know what you can go do with yourself.

Wow! Talk about a combination of overreaction and poor comprehension! Who advocated forced sterilization? Stating a belief in negative population growth and not having children oneself does not equate to advocating forced sterilization. Wowza!