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that may be true, but thats only part of it. You are not looking at it from the military's perspective. The military advisors have been engaged in this process for quite awhile. This is primarily a military issue, and that side of the equation needs to be addressed. People need to realize that if this change is implemented there will be consequences. Based on your comments, I don't think you see the big picture
Actually, I think I am seeing a bigger picture than you. But your remarks regarding my not seeing it from the military's perspective are well-taken. Not being a member of the military, I engaged in this thread, in part, to gain insight into the military perspective. And thanks to you and others, I've gained a better understanding of your concerns. That doesn't mean that I think that all your concerns are valid, but by the same token, my opposition to your argument doesn't mean that I think that all your concerns are invalid. I do think I am seeing a bigger picture than you. But I respect your perspective as well. And more than that, as a civilian, I thank you and all the other servicemen and servicewomen for their service. Their contributions are too often forgotten.
That someone sues because the discharge is Unconstitutional. And the UCMJ gets revised, so that homosexuality is no longer grounds for discharge.
That's the perceived scenario.
sorry but its not as cut and dry as that
if someone can not follow directions, regulatory guidence, and orders of those out ranking them, they WILL be discharged, and possible more
I spent 24 years in the military,, now I am a DAC (Department of Army Civilian)...my job is transfers and DISCHARGES
soldiers are discharged EVERYDAY, for all sorts of things, and many are not getting Honorable discharges
just the other day I was dealing with a former RESERVIST soldier, who was discharged for being a non-partisipant (not attending drill for the "one weekend a month" thing...she was discharge 2 years ago as a OTH (other than honorable) for non-participating...she want to come back in...she CANT....she cant even get bonded in the civilian world, she can NEVER hold a government job
and thats just because she didnt attent drill...everyday Soldiers are discharged for smoking dope, other drugs, civilian criminal acts, rape, fraternization, adultry, sodomy, etc...many even go to jail
this 'gay rights' thing.....its garbage...if you cant abide by the rules you will be kicked out..and there is NOTHING about the constitution that can prevent that...
Actually, I think I am seeing a bigger picture than you. But your remarks regarding my not seeing it from the military's perspective are well-taken. Not being a member of the military, I engaged in this thread, in part, to gain insight into the military perspective. And thanks to you and others, I've gained a better understanding of your concerns. That doesn't mean that I think that all your concerns are valid, but by the same token, my opposition to your argument doesn't mean that I think that all your concerns are invalid. I do think I am seeing a bigger picture than you. But I respect your perspective as well. And more than that, as a civilian, I thank you and all the other servicemen and servicewomen for their service. Their contributions are too often forgotten.
thanks
I think that too many people are looking at this as a political issue only. That is not surprising since we are on a political forum, and Obama makes 99% of his decisions from a political mindset.
With that in mind... he has really screwed this up. He is appealing the judges decision to end that ban, but he does want to end the ban
and to make matters worse, his own party could not get the votes to pass it through congress.
Now he faces an uphill battle.
1. the appeal process: this is a no-win for Obama. If he wins then DADT remains in effect. If he loses then the military will scramble to make changes, and there will be much confusion & chaos w/i the military. Not to mention the political implications
2. If the appeal wins then it is up to congress. That most likely would be a republican house and/or Senate.
3. he could also "encourage" a lame duck congress to pass the repeal. That would be a win for gay rights, but a political disaster for Obama.
sometimes when you lose you really win... i.e. if you are playing musical electric chairs.
You really don't understand the system of balances. Congress can pass laws that are Unconstitutional, but judicial review can render such laws void. Any contracts enforcing Unconstitutional rules related to said law would be amended to reflect the court's ruling. You are sorely misinformed if you think that the courts do not have authority in this matter.
I guess the proof will be outed within the next week or so.
if someone can not follow directions, regulatory guidence, and orders of those out ranking them, they WILL be discharged, and possible more
I spent 24 years in the military,, now I am a DAC (Department of Army Civilian)...my job is transfers and DISCHARGES
soldiers are discharged EVERYDAY, for all sorts of things, and many are not getting Honorable discharges
just the other day I was dealing with a former RESERVIST soldier, who was discharged for being a non-partisipant (not attending drill for the "one weekend a month" thing...she was discharge 2 years ago as a OTH (other than honorable) for non-participating...she want to come back in...she CANT....she cant even get bonded in the civilian world, she can NEVER hold a government job
and thats just because she didnt attent drill...everyday Soldiers are discharged for smoking dope, other drugs, civilian criminal acts, rape, fraternization, adultry, sodomy, etc...many even go to jail
this 'gay rights' thing.....its garbage...if you cant abide by the rules you will be kicked out..and there is NOTHING about the constitution that can prevent that...
Being gay is not the same as smoking dope committing criminal acts and raping someone. Not to mention the fact people have been kicked out because someone found out they were gay through another source, snooping through e-mails, etc. Fact of the matter is this issue is about one thing and one thing only. Equality.
Being gay is not the same as smoking dope committing criminal acts and raping someone. Not to mention the fact people have been kicked out because someone found out they were gay through another source, snooping through e-mails, etc. Fact of the matter is this issue is about one thing and one thing only. Equality.
With or Without DADT, if the homosexual member attempts to "be equal" and brings their partner to a function, or details ANYTHING about their life, they are going to get discharged.
At least with DADT if they don't discuss it, they don't get bounced, IAW the UCMJ and Armed Forces Policies.
thanks
I think that too many people are looking at this as a political issue only. That is not surprising since we are on a political forum, and Obama makes 99% of his decisions from a political mindset.
With that in mind... he has really screwed this up. He is appealing the judges decision to end that ban, but he does want to end the ban
and to make matters worse, his own party could not get the votes to pass it through congress.
Now he faces an uphill battle.
1. the appeal process: this is a no-win for Obama. If he wins then DADT remains in effect. If he loses then the military will scramble to make changes, and there will be much confusion & chaos w/i the military. Not to mention the political implications
2. If the appeal wins then it is up to congress. That most likely would be a republican house and/or Senate.
3. he could also "encourage" a lame duck congress to pass the repeal. That would be a win for gay rights, but a political disaster for Obama.
sometimes when you lose you really win... i.e. if you are playing musical electric chairs.
how would #3 be a disaster for Obama? Polls indicate that a solid majority is in favor of repeal of DADT, even some conservatives. Obama's not going to get conservatives to EVER vote for him. The best that he can do is to keep his base intact. And he's losing what he has with his constant wavering on the issues. Any independent voters would not really think this issue to be important. there would still be 2 years until the next POTUS election, a long spell. Voters' memory is short. 2 years is a long time.
Yes, judges can tell us what the law will be (by interpreting existing laws passed by the Legislature). Read up on your Constitution, specifically Article III.
We hold elections to choose representatives who will enact new laws. Those representatives are sworn to uphold the Constitution. The Judiciary is empowered to rule on cases of law, including cases challenging laws.
The electorate cannot overrule the Constitution, unless they go so far as to have their representatives and the required number of states to amend it.
I don't think the liberal judicial branch has any idea of the tsunami heading their direction.
Teabaggers, of which I am proudly one, are going to be a force to be reckoned with and it needs to be remembered all money originates and is controlled by the house of representitives. The executive and judicial branch can not appropriate or spend one penny without it coming out of the house of representatives.
Quote:
Section 7 All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House
of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur
with Amendments as on other Bills.
A true teabagger would starve the ninth circuit court to death for lack of money. No money for telephones, office space, heat, light or staff. No paper, no typewriters, no secretaries (unless they want to work for free) no internet or computers. Nothing, they can all sit together in a cold dark room until they get their act together. A true revolution!
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Well
Re-instate Draft
