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Old 10-17-2010, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,209,134 times
Reputation: 4269

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattos_12 View Post
Bentbow - To clarify you make a few points/logical argumen:

" Christianity and Islam, are a contradiction of each other and do not mingle well at all."

This suggests that there is something in the nature of Christianity and something in the nature of Islam that contradicts. So, whereas the Bible says thou shalt not kill, the Koran say, thou shalt not kill...wait, you see my concern here?

You also claim that this is a continuation of the 'Holly Wars' that have been raging for centuries. Only, for the majority of the time from the 12th century onwards Islam and the Christian empires have been at peace...makes your model a little odd...

There is a basic difference between saying that America et al are at war with 'X' state and that state is predominantly Islamic, and we are at war with Islam. In the latter case your biggest enemy is in SE Asia, which makes you worry about all this middle east nonsense..
Is there a chance you could define these words from the link in the OP?

In a sermon published Sept. 30 titled "How Islam Confronts the Oppression and Tyranny [against the Muslims]," Badi said waging jihad against both Israel and the United States is a commandment of Allah that cannot be disregarded.

Do these words sound like Badi, the leader of the American Muslim Brotherhood sound like words to love by, to you? They surely don't to me.
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,209,134 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdustmaker View Post
You have some super secret power that can detect a Muslim who wants to kill you vs. one who wants to hug you? You know where the cells are and what they have planned?



I'm glad they don't scare you. Child molesters don't tend to scare anyone until after the fact either.



What the heck?
These libs are willing to support anything that Muslims do if it is something they think conservatives don't like. If you noticed that one wasn't discussing anything but just jabbing at me as a conservative. Just roll with them and don't let them get to you.
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Imaginary Figment
11,449 posts, read 14,442,992 times
Reputation: 4777
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Over a month ago I talked and talked about the Muslim Brotherhood being the group that takes control of about everything Muslim in the US. They have officially declared war on the whole West and especially the US. Now it is time for us to deal with CAIR and other Muslim groups as if they were really at war with us.

Muslim Brotherhood 'declares war' on U.S.
I'd say a general lack of education paired with fear is a much bigger threat to this country, more than Muslim fundies could ever dream of. It's what happens when people go to "Beck U."

Last edited by SLCPUNK; 10-17-2010 at 10:29 PM..
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,209,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattos_12 View Post
Ok, so that's 9 wars in over 300 years. So, lets thinks about this relatively, US, 20th century directly involved:

Several in Cuba, P.C, WW1,WW2, Korea, Vietnam, First gulf war, second gulf war, Serbian crisis etc etc

That's an easy nine is 100 years, to times up about the same as 27 wars in the same 300 year period. I'm not saying that Islamic states are peaceful, simple that there is nothing about Islam itself that makes states more violent. The historical evidence seems to seriously question that Christian states are less violent.

The Muslim brotherhood is an organization, not a religion. It was originally an anti-colonial organisation, provides social services, health care etc, and no doubt dislikes the USA. But the muslim brotherhood is a political organization, not a religion.

You suggest that its worth 'keeping an eye' on groups, which is clearly true. But to be deluded into thinking that Islam is the problem just diminishes the effectiveness of your security services. To recognize that there are states and organizations that have political interests and practical gains is much more useful to state security.
I offered this link on a post on the previous page and can easily see that you haven't read any part of it. Maybe you need to get a little bit more updated about the situation by reading this one and then telling us we are wrong.

The Muslim Brotherhood's US Network » Current Trends in Islamist Ideology
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,209,134 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLCPUNK View Post
I'd say a general lack of eduction paired with fear is a much bigger threat to this country, more than Muslim fundies could ever dream of. It's what happens when people go to "Beck U."
But who is the one who needs a little bit of eduction, if you meant education, this time? I think that you have failed to read this link that I offered to a couple of people earlier in this thread. It has too much about the history of the Muslim Brotherhood in America to avoid, but then I know you don't want to read anything so long. Read just the first few paragraphs to get more of that eduction, your spelling, not mine, that you seem to need.

http://www.currenttrends.org/researc...pub_detail.asp
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Tujunga
421 posts, read 447,529 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Is there a chance you could define these words from the link in the OP?

In a sermon published Sept. 30 titled "How Islam Confronts the Oppression and Tyranny [against the Muslims]," Badi said waging jihad against both Israel and the United States is a commandment of Allah that cannot be disregarded.

Do these words sound like Badi, the leader of the American Muslim Brotherhood sound like words to love by, to you? They surely don't to me.
I'm not saying that Islam is inherently good, just not inherently bad. Islam, like Christianity, is adapted to political circumstances.

As it happens similar development can be seen, Christianity has the concept of 'Thou Shalt not kill' which meant that original Christians were often pacifists. However, as Christian states became powerful and wanted to go to war the jurisprudence developed into 'just war theory', which accepted killing in certain circumstances. In a similar way Islam prohibits killing, but Islamic jurisprudence has developed in response to the colonial struggle of the 19th/20th century to justify killing.

I'm not trying to vindicate the actions of any given group, but to assume that Islam is the cause is just faulty causal logic, and leads to erroneous conclusions and inefficient actions.
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:28 PM
 
Location: Imaginary Figment
11,449 posts, read 14,442,992 times
Reputation: 4777
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
I think that you have failed to read this link that I offered to a couple of people earlier in this thread. It has too much about the history of the Muslim Brotherhood in America to avoid, but then I know you don't want to read anything so long.
No thanks, I'll save all my fear mongering for Halloween.
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Tujunga
421 posts, read 447,529 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
I offered this link on a post on the previous page and can easily see that you haven't read any part of it. Maybe you need to get a little bit more updated about the situation by reading this one and then telling us we are wrong.

The Muslim Brotherhood's US Network » Current Trends in Islamist Ideology
Ok, but we need to clarify the logic of your claims:

There has been an ongoing war between 'Islam' and the West for hundreds of years - disproven: Islamic nations have mainly been at peace with the West.

Christianity is currently at war with Islam - you have failed to link causally Islam and war, logically if the West was at war with Islam the main threat would be SE Asia, not the Middle East, this doesn't make sense

The Muslim BrotherHood(a political organisation) have an anti American agenda - whos disagreeing? Whats your point?

There is a difference between saying that various MENA states, org leaders have an animosity towards the USA and that there is a 'Christian-Islamic' war on the go. You have yet to make an argument for that, or bring up evidence, is it your argument?
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Old 10-17-2010, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,209,134 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattos_12 View Post
I'm not saying that Islam is inherently good, just not inherently bad. Islam, like Christianity, is adapted to political circumstances.

As it happens similar development can be seen, Christianity has the concept of 'Thou Shalt not kill' which meant that original Christians were often pacifists. However, as Christian states became powerful and wanted to go to war the jurisprudence developed into 'just war theory', which accepted killing in certain circumstances. In a similar way Islam prohibits killing, but Islamic jurisprudence has developed in response to the colonial struggle of the 19th/20th century to justify killing.

I'm not trying to vindicate the actions of any given group, but to assume that Islam is the cause is just faulty causal logic, and leads to erroneous conclusions and inefficient actions.
Go ahead and read some of my link that then lets discuss this situation. OK?
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Old 10-17-2010, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,209,134 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattos_12 View Post
Ok, but we need to clarify the logic of your claims:

There has been an ongoing war between 'Islam' and the West for hundreds of years - disproven: Islamic nations have mainly been at peace with the West.

Christianity is currently at war with Islam - you have failed to link causally Islam and war, logically if the West was at war with Islam the main threat would be SE Asia, not the Middle East, this doesn't make sense

The Muslim BrotherHood(a political organisation) have an anti American agenda - whos disagreeing? Whats your point?

There is a difference between saying that various MENA states, org leaders have an animosity towards the USA and that there is a 'Christian-Islamic' war on the go. You have yet to make an argument for that, or bring up evidence, is it your argument?
I am wondering if you see that I am talking, mainly, about Islamists which are the purely political side of Islam.

I want you to see that the Muslim Brotherhood has declared war on the US and that is not al Qaida or some group like that. It is the leader of all the smaller groups, like al Qaida, and now I am saying that with the declaration by Badi the other day all of them are at war with us. Yes, I am saying that all the groups that serve the Brotherhood and under the Brotherhood are essentially at war with us. I am saying that that Brotherhood declared over 40 years ago that they wanted to take over the US by political means other than warfare. That tells me that all the people who refuse to recognize that point are willing to be dhimmis, after they take over our government.

I still want to discuss the article I proffered for your reading but we both have to have read it before we can discuss it.
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