U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-18-2010, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Reality
9,949 posts, read 7,757,661 times
Reputation: 3310

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
The most vocal critics of Christie in NJ are union folks, he shreded them and they are hell bent on taking him down.
I've noticed that myself, it seems like he's the first person to stand up to the labor unions and they despise him for it no matter what he does. His approval rating continues to rise, the people of NJ are getting smarter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-18-2010, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
59,900 posts, read 57,347,783 times
Reputation: 71439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Backspace View Post
So basically you personally want the state of NJ to spend 8 billion dollars it doesn't have so your ride to work is a little shorter? If you don't like your commute move. Gov. Christie is doing a great job, just because you picked a bad place to live doesn't make him a bad governor.
The problem isn't really a shorter ride (yes, I know Lautenberg's touting that in the newspaper, but it's only minutes, really), it's the increased volume of people commuting with a finite number of ways to cross that river. No, the money isn't there, but the number of commuters is only going to increase in the future so sooner or later they're going to have to figure something out to handle the volume. I've been commuting for more than thirty years now and I've seen the massive influx of new commuters as Bergen County built on every square inch of dirt they could find until I could no longer afford to live there, so while you can afford to cavalierly say "you picked a bad place to live", you should take into account that we middle-class commuters have to make difficult choices. People in my office are now coming in every day from the Poconos and upstate New York. My own commute is sixty miles and 2 hours long, but even with monthly expenses of $30 for parking, $299 for NJ Transit, and $52 for PATH, it's still more affordable, and palatable, than living in an urban area whether some consider it a "Gold Coast" or not. And remember, we are paying our property taxes and buying our goods and services in New Jersey with New York money.

The new tunnel, in whatever form and whenever it does get built with whatever financing scheme they come up with will never affect me because I'll be retired by then, but just saying "oh, we don't need it EVER" is not really an option.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-18-2010, 08:52 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 23,795,392 times
Reputation: 4532
With all these projects planned for the next 3 decades , we need to do something......draw up another Tunnel and Station plan. During Rush hour there are train traffic jams , i don't think politicians understand we need to really upgrade our infrastructure they wait intill it collapses and then all the Red Tape is gone. All these lines will add an Estimated 500-600,000 to the system most going to New York , the rest to Hoboken.

Raritan Valley line by 2040 will have these lines
Flemington Line
West Trenton line
Philpsburg Extension
Amtrak Lehigh Service

The Morris & Essex Network will have these lines by 2020
Lackawanna line
Pompton line
Lackawanna Amtrak Service
Philpsburg Extension
Pompton line


The Main line will have these lines by 2040
Pascack Valley line extension
Graham line
West Shore line


The Northeast Corridor will have all these lines by 2040
Freehold line
Tom's River line
West Trenton line
Philipsburg line
Amtrak's Lehigh service
Amtrak's Lackawanna Service
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-18-2010, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,889 posts, read 16,631,195 times
Reputation: 3129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
With all these projects planned for the next 3 decades , we need to do something......draw up another Tunnel and Station plan. During Rush hour there are train traffic jams , i don't think politicians understand we need to really upgrade our infrastructure they wait intill it collapses and then all the Red Tape is gone. All these lines will add an Estimated 500-600,000 to the system most going to New York , the rest to Hoboken.

Raritan Valley line by 2040 will have these lines
Flemington Line
West Trenton line
Philpsburg Extension
Amtrak Lehigh Service

The Morris & Essex Network will have these lines by 2020
Lackawanna line
Pompton line
Lackawanna Amtrak Service
Philpsburg Extension
Pompton line

The Main line will have these lines by 2040
Pascack Valley line extension
Graham line
West Shore line

The Northeast Corridor will have all these lines by 2040
Freehold line
Tom's River line
West Trenton line
Philipsburg line
Amtrak's Lehigh service
Amtrak's Lackawanna Service

I think it is unlikely the population will grow that much over that time frame. We have been experiencing population loss.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-18-2010, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
59,900 posts, read 57,347,783 times
Reputation: 71439
Another issue that I haven't seen discussed in relation to this new tunnel and station but that bothers me is that on occasion when I miss my train to Hoboken and I pay the extra money to go to Penn Station (a monthly ticket to Penn NY is about $115 more than the Hoboken ticket) is safety. When you get off the train at Penn, you are stuck shoulder to shoulder on a narrow platform and sometimes it takes ten minutes before you get to the stairs or escalator. I've twice gotten out of the WTC, and I would not want to be down there in the overcrowded platforms at Penn if a bomb went off. There's no way out. Just recently I saw the video from the security cameras in the train station in Madrid, and it's a similar scenaro--scads of people lined up to go up a single escalator, you hear the first bangs from the first bomb, see the people turn around on the escalator to see what's going on, and then BAM, nothing but smoke and you know you just saw about 200 people die.

Maybe it's just me and my nerves are shot. Did I mention that I will be retiring in three years?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-18-2010, 09:02 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 23,795,392 times
Reputation: 4532
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
I think it is unlikely the population will grow that much over that time frame. We have been experiencing population loss.
Some of those lines are for NYS ,and PA but run through NJ. But the state is growing and fast , mostly along Railways or Highways and since these are cheap restorations they will happen. The Urban areas have been growing very fast. The Population isn't shrinking its reorganizing itself. We live in the Bos-Wash Corridor we will never lose a large chunk of the population. Also many NJT lines have been growing in ridership so NJT has decided to restore other lines.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-18-2010, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,889 posts, read 16,631,195 times
Reputation: 3129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Some of those lines are for NYS ,and PA but run through NJ. But the state is growing and fast , mostly along Railways or Highways and since these are cheap restorations they will happen. The Urban areas have been growing very fast. The Population isn't shrinking its reorganizing itself. We live in the Bos-Wash Corridor we will never lose a large chunk of the population. Also many NJT lines have been growing in ridership so NJT has decided to restore other lines.

No, no Jersey is losing population. If you are suggesting we invest our money for the convenince of Pa residents, no thanks.

New Jersey's population drain - NJVoices: James Hughes and Joseph Seneca

"The overall deceleration in the growth rate has been caused by the sharp acceleration in the number of New Jerseyans moving to other states - national migration. In 2002, New Jersey had a net outflow 23,759 people - that is 23,759 more people moved from New Jersey to other states than people from the rest of the country moved into New Jersey. The losses accelerated over the next four years: 33,225 in 2003, 45,045 in 2004, and 56,989 in 2005. By 2006, the new outflow was 72,547 persons. A simple extrapolation of this trend suggests that New Jersey would have a net outflow of over 100,000 persons in 2009."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-18-2010, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Reality
9,949 posts, read 7,757,661 times
Reputation: 3310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
The problem isn't really a shorter ride (yes, I know Lautenberg's touting that in the newspaper, but it's only minutes, really), it's the increased volume of people commuting with a finite number of ways to cross that river. No, the money isn't there, but the number of commuters is only going to increase in the future so sooner or later they're going to have to figure something out to handle the volume. I've been commuting for more than thirty years now and I've seen the massive influx of new commuters as Bergen County built on every square inch of dirt they could find until I could no longer afford to live there, so while you can afford to cavalierly say "you picked a bad place to live", you should take into account that we middle-class commuters have to make difficult choices. People in my office are now coming in every day from the Poconos and upstate New York. My own commute is sixty miles and 2 hours long, but even with monthly expenses of $30 for parking, $299 for NJ Transit, and $52 for PATH, it's still more affordable, and palatable, than living in an urban area whether some consider it a "Gold Coast" or not. And remember, we are paying our property taxes and buying our goods and services in New Jersey with New York money.

The new tunnel, in whatever form and whenever it does get built with whatever financing scheme they come up with will never affect me because I'll be retired by then, but just saying "oh, we don't need it EVER" is not really an option.
Nobody here said it'll never be needed but you can't afford it, period. NJ can't print money like Obama,
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-18-2010, 09:17 PM
 
Location: mancos
7,309 posts, read 6,651,918 times
Reputation: 5114
another chance to steel 3 billion from the few working taxpayers blown! what is this country coming to. next they will want a balanced budget. stop them extremists now
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-18-2010, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
59,900 posts, read 57,347,783 times
Reputation: 71439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Backspace View Post
Nobody here said it'll never be needed but you can't afford it, period. NJ can't print money like Obama,
Actually, yes, some people have said we don't need another tunnel. Read back through the posts.

"Can't afford it, period" goes nowhere, and I don't get your superfluous "Obama" remark. The idea is, as mentioned in the Crain's article I posted, to get businesses to invest, and/or to do a P3 as is being done with the new Goethals Bridge that will be built connecting NJ to Staten Island (and which will be built wide enough to allow for a corridor for a possible future mass transit installation--either a bus lane or light rail.) Nothing is free, and NJ residents truly cannot afford any more tax increases, so we have to look at other ways to finance this. And, as Nexus points out, there likely will have to be a change in planning and design from what they were going for. A lot of details of this plan did not set well with people in the first place, so this delay is an opportunity to revisit that, as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top