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Old 10-18-2010, 09:40 AM
 
2,564 posts, read 1,290,950 times
Reputation: 347

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
For pete's sake..someone somewhere finally said NO to this never ending government spending and you say they are being "spiteful".
Did you not read that this is a much needed NJ/NYC tunnel project? This implies that the current infrastructure is very poor! Why would Governor Christie be against something that
1) creates a much-needed work commute route for many workers
2) creates jobs for more workers
The only thing that I can come up with that makes any sense is his SPITE. Was Governor Christie marching against Bush multi-trillion dollar expenditures of US Blood & Treasure on Wars destroying the lives and infrastructure of other nations, hmmm?
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,781 posts, read 23,755,254 times
Reputation: 6174
Quote:
Originally Posted by aspiesmom View Post
Did you not read that this is a much needed NJ/NYC tunnel project? This implies that the current infrastructure is very poor! Why would Governor Christie be against something that
1) creates a much-needed work commute route for many workers
2) creates jobs for more workers
The only thing that I can come up with that makes any sense is his SPITE. Was Governor Christie marching against Bush multi-trillion dollar expenditures of US Blood & Treasure on Wars destroying the lives and infrastructure of other nations, hmmm?
And why have the cost increased so significantly since the 2005 project estimate?
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
41,314 posts, read 39,496,708 times
Reputation: 7107
Very wise of him. The cost estimates have sky rocketed - all the way up to $8 Billion that NJ taxpayers will be on the hook for.

Excellent decision.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201...roject_is.html

Quote:
“I have made a pledge to the people of New Jersey that on my watch I will not allow taxpayers to fund projects that run over budget with no clear way of how these costs will be paid for,” said the governor.

“Considering the unprecedented fiscal and economic climate our State is facing, it is completely unthinkable to borrow more money and leave taxpayers responsible for billions in cost overruns.
Too bad we don't see more responsible public servants like this man.

Quote:
Christie called a 30-day temporary halt in September on new tunnel construction, as behind-the-scenes cost projections suggested the tunnel project costs would swell more than $1 billion above the $8.7 million proposed price tag.
Original estimate - $2.8 billion.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
55,578 posts, read 54,188,638 times
Reputation: 65726
It's not as simple as it sounds. He didn't necessarily turn down the money--he's playing a hand waiting for one of the major contributors--either the Port Authority or the federal government--to guarantee that they will cover the cost overruns so NJ isn't exposed to it.

The tunnel is needed, but the cost is high. People are NOT getting from NJ to NY "just fine". There are delays and backups all the time because the only rail tunnel going to midtown is more than 100 years old and already being used beyond capacity.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
55,578 posts, read 54,188,638 times
Reputation: 65726
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
And why have the cost increased so significantly since the 2005 project estimate?
Well, first of all it depends on who does the estimate. If you want a high estimate to make your case, you get people to do estimates who will give you worst-case scenario. If you want lower estimates to make your case, you do the opposite.

The fact of the matter is that it COULD go very high, because estimating for the excavation of tunnel is not a slam-dunk easy science. This is a very deep tunnel--and don't forget, this thing is going underneath a mile-wide river--and no one can be 100% sure at this time what the conditions are in the rock and soil that will be encountered down there. They can do borings and take samples, but they could also be missing problems that they won't know about until they actually dig.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:49 AM
 
16,553 posts, read 11,464,890 times
Reputation: 4230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
It's not as simple as it sounds. He didn't necessarily turn down the money--he's playing a hand waiting for one of the major contributors--either the Port Authority or the federal government--to guarantee that they will cover the cost overruns so NJ isn't exposed to it.

The tunnel is needed, but the cost is high. People are NOT getting from NJ to NY "just fine". There are delays and backups all the time because the only rail tunnel going to midtown is more than 100 years old and already being used beyond capacity.
If it's that horrible, then drive your damn car into the city. This project is needed just as bad as everyone needs a hole in the head. When the economy is better, then go for it, but not now.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,781 posts, read 23,755,254 times
Reputation: 6174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Well, first of all it depends on who does the estimate. If you want a high estimate to make your case, you get people to do estimates who will give you worst-case scenario. If you want lower estimates to make your case, you do the opposite.

The fact of the matter is that it COULD go very high, because estimating for the excavation of tunnel is not a slam-dunk easy science. This is a very deep tunnel--and don't forget, this thing is going underneath a mile-wide river--and no one can be 100% sure at this time what the conditions are in the rock and soil that will be encountered down there. They can do borings and take samples, but they could also be missing problems that they won't know about until they actually dig.
But, this would be a known risk when doing the project cost evaluation. It isn't like the initial evaluation was from 20 years ago, it is recent enough that the risk, and cost of mitigation, should have been known and disclosed.

Any large project only has one set of estimates. This should include the "most probable" estimate, along with a risk analysis and associated cost for potential problems.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:52 AM
 
5,346 posts, read 3,360,751 times
Reputation: 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
If it's that horrible, then drive your damn car into the city. This project is needed just as bad as everyone needs a hole in the head. When the economy is better, then go for it, but not now.
This would be a step in making things better... for business... people getting into and out of NYC... more business means more jobs... growing commerce... boosting economy... etc...
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
55,578 posts, read 54,188,638 times
Reputation: 65726
Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
If it's that horrible, then drive your damn car into the city. This project is needed just as bad as everyone needs a hole in the head. When the economy is better, then go for it, but not now.
Are you kidding me? You don't live anywhere in the NY metro area, do you. LOLOL.

Besides, I don't use that train line anyway.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:54 AM
 
2,564 posts, read 1,290,950 times
Reputation: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
And why have the cost increased so significantly since the 2005 project estimate?
Does Governor Christie think the much needed commuter route will improve by doing nothing? Will it cost even more for another future Governor down the road due to Governor Christie's inactions now? WHY do Republicans even run for office, to rake in a paycheck & benefits to vote no on everything and do NOTHING?
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