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Old 10-20-2010, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Texas
34,930 posts, read 19,075,843 times
Reputation: 20500

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Quote:
Originally Posted by california-jewel View Post
Your putting your own words into reading something that is not true.
Let's discuss...

Quote:
How has society given to my husband or my Son in his early thirties who makes very good money, they never gave him a damn thing believe me.
We differ here.

American society is different than almost any other. I think it's better. I think having a strong middle class makes the bulk of that difference. I'd wager that the successes your husband and son have acheived may be due in part to this strong middle class. Just a guess on my part, though.

I see the move towards a "permanent" wealthy class as an anti-American development.

America should be a place where if you work hard and play by the rules, you should be able to get ahead. I don't think showing favoritism towards those who were lucky enough to be born into rich families is any kind of American ideal.



Quote:
My Son put himself thru school, was in school for 10 years while working maybe 3 jobs at the same time, you sure did not support him, Government never gave him a big Gift, he did this on his own, Society granted my Son not a damn thing, so get over it.
America gave your son the opportunity and he took advantage of it. America provided a society (unlike others in this world) where an individual can better him/herself. That's not the case in the vast majority of nations.

And your son isn't a special case. I'd argue that most Americans work hard and earn what they get.

But the GOP policies have been, "If you have a job and work for a living, you suck. If your career is built on sitting around the pool, sipping drinks prepared for you by your domestic staff while you wait for the dividends to be deposited in your Swiss bank account, then you've had it too rough. You need a big tax break."

We all see the result of 8 years of that policy. It's called the great recession. The ballooning deficit under Bush was due to the big shortfall in revenue resulting from his tax cut for the rich. He made up a big part of the difference by borrowing from Red China. Then, he deregulated the financial corporations, and we all saw the effect of that brilliant move.

The middle class in this country is shrinking, and it isn't because of welfare policies and it isn't because middle class Americans have gotten lazy. It's because of seriously flawed economic policy.

Quote:
I happen to know some less fortunate those who are out there pulling their own, and trying to better themselves, while to tell you the truth, there are those in life who expect to be treated special, get something for nothing, not ever intend to work, and bitc- at what those around them have.
I'm not arguing that welfare cases should get more benefits.

My view is that the wealthy should go back to paying the tax rates they had under Ronald Reagan. This country is in bad shape as a result of eight years of flawed policies that had the effect of ruining the economy while simultaneously placing us in deep debt. The gainers were the wealthy, and all out of proportion to any contributions they made to America during those eight years. A LARGE part of the reason we're in so deep a deficit is because of the Bush tax cuts for those who need them the least and didn't even bother to request those cuts in the first place.

Again, after a millionaire pays his taxes, he's still a millionaire. It's my view that those who've benefited the most should not be so ungrateful.

Like I mentioned previously, America is a different society. We became a nation when we'd had enough of an entrenched European royalty and nobility who controlled practically all the wealth.

It's what sets us apart from stagnant European countires. Even those who've mostly gotten away from the old royalty business and developed middle class societies of their own.

What's sad is the economic stratification underway in America whereby a class of oligarchs controls so much of the economy and policy. That's the model for poverty-ridden 3rd world nations.

Quote:
I don't want to hear any garbage.
Automatically labeling any differing opinion as "garbage" will probably make you feel like you're in the dump.

Quote:
Most People born in this Country have the opportunity to better themselves, if they choose, some make the right choices in life, while, some do not and never intend to have a goal just expect to take and take and take, but never intend to work for it, i call that sheer laziness. And living off the butts of the Government.
And those folks get what they deserve: the scraps the rest of are willing to throw their way.
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati
3,335 posts, read 5,895,380 times
Reputation: 2059
Quote:
Originally Posted by california-jewel View Post
My Son put himself thru school, was in school for 10 years while working maybe 3 jobs at the same time, you sure did not support him, Government never gave him a big Gift, he did this on his own, Society granted my Son not a damn thing, so get over it.
If your son took out student loans, then I and every other American taxpayer paid the interest on those loans. If he went to a public university, the American and California taxpayers subsidized that too.
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:58 AM
 
3,378 posts, read 3,228,152 times
Reputation: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
Let's discuss...

We differ here.

American society is different than almost any other. I think it's better. I think having a strong middle class makes the bulk of that difference. I'd wager that the successes your husband and son have acheived may be due in part to this strong middle class. Just a guess on my part, though.

I see the move towards a "permanent" wealthy class as an anti-American development.

America should be a place where if you work hard and play by the rules, you should be able to get ahead. I don't think showing favoritism towards those who were lucky enough to be born into rich families is any kind of American ideal.



America gave your son the opportunity and he took advantage of it. America provided a society (unlike others in this world) where an individual can better him/herself. That's not the case in the vast majority of nations.

And your son isn't a special case. I'd argue that most Americans work hard and earn what they get.

But the GOP policies have been, "If you have a job and work for a living, you suck. If your career is built on sitting around the pool, sipping drinks prepared for you by your domestic staff while you wait for the dividends to be deposited in your Swiss bank account, then you've had it too rough. You need a big tax break."

We all see the result of 8 years of that policy. It's called the great recession. The ballooning deficit under Bush was due to the big shortfall in revenue resulting from his tax cut for the rich. He made up a big part of the difference by borrowing from Red China. Then, he deregulated the financial corporations, and we all saw the effect of that brilliant move.

The middle class in this country is shrinking, and it isn't because of welfare policies and it isn't because middle class Americans have gotten lazy. It's because of seriously flawed economic policy.

I'm not arguing that welfare cases should get more benefits.

My view is that the wealthy should go back to paying the tax rates they had under Ronald Reagan. This country is in bad shape as a result of eight years of flawed policies that had the effect of ruining the economy while simultaneously placing us in deep debt. The gainers were the wealthy, and all out of proportion to any contributions they made to America during those eight years. A LARGE part of the reason we're in so deep a deficit is because of the Bush tax cuts for those who need them the least and didn't even bother to request those cuts in the first place.

Again, after a millionaire pays his taxes, he's still a millionaire. It's my view that those who've benefited the most should not be so ungrateful.

Like I mentioned previously, America is a different society. We became a nation when we'd had enough of an entrenched European royalty and nobility who controlled practically all the wealth.

It's what sets us apart from stagnant European countires. Even those who've mostly gotten away from the old royalty business and developed middle class societies of their own.

What's sad is the economic stratification underway in America whereby a class of oligarchs controls so much of the economy and policy. That's the model for poverty-ridden 3rd world nations.

Automatically labeling any differing opinion as "garbage" will probably make you feel like you're in the dump.

And those folks get what they deserve: the scraps the rest of are willing to throw their way.
your post sounds great, but it is wrong Yes, people do aspire to be successful... and when they get there there should not be a huge tax burden pushing them back down. Let me ask you a serious question...
What good does it do to tax the rich? Does it make you feel better about your personal situation? Jealousy is not an American value. Government already brings in ENOUGH of out tax money... The problem is that they waste it
NEWSFLASH: OUR TAX MONEY IS NOT BEING SPENT WISELY!!!
Would you give to the Red Cross if you found out that 50% were going in their pockets? Well, thats how I feel about taxes... and I'm not the only one who feels this way
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Old 10-20-2010, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Land of debt and Corruption
7,526 posts, read 7,180,021 times
Reputation: 2844
Quote:
Originally Posted by progmac View Post
If your son took out student loans, then I and every other American taxpayer paid the interest on those loans. If he went to a public university, the American and California taxpayers subsidized that too.
How do you figure? If he paid back the student loans himself, why would the taxpayers ALSO be on the hook for the interest on those loans? Makes no sense.

I had to take out loans in grad school, and I paid them back in full. The payback included interest on the loans which I paid, nobody else.
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Old 10-20-2010, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Florida
21,603 posts, read 11,030,214 times
Reputation: 7849
I love to see people who work hard and are diligent get ahead. I always love to share the joy when someone advances.

What does bother me is to see those who do little or nothing get more than the hard working Americans through false lies and shams.

I am not a person who wants to keep up with the Jones. I usually get something that makes me happy ...not to show up anyone. I find that always being in a state of contentment is a good trait to have. Being thankful and enjoying life is a positive.

But as I said, seeing the lazy and users and takers get more than the hard working poor or middleclass gets me disgusted. They are the first ones there for a hand out and abuse the system thinking they are entitled to what everyone else had to work hard for.
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Old 10-20-2010, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 51,122,415 times
Reputation: 24604
I was paid by the government less than $135 per month in Vietnam. That cost those taxpayers their fortunes. The best reason for taxing the rich is that is where the money is. Taxing anyone under the 90th percentile is just squeezing blood from a rock. The crooked thieves in finance and Wall Street have already bled us dry.

The government helped the wealty get and stay rich so let them pay for it.
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Old 10-20-2010, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 11,254,222 times
Reputation: 3092
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
At least you admit it...Not in the exact words I would like, but your response screams that you can't actually answer to what I proposed.
You do an awful LOT of assuming don't you?

You're 24 and single, no kids - get back to me when you have like another 30 years "life experience" under your belt, and then tell me HOW productive "looking" for 80 hours a week would be for an over 55 year old in THIS job market, especially in a "city" of 325k tops (that's including rural adjoining counties btw) with minimal manufacturing.

But the TOPIC of this thread is NOT the unemployed - it's why SOME people are "fixated" on those who have more than they do, so kindly stop hijacking to further your own twisted agenda of bashing those who post on the UE forum.
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Old 10-20-2010, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Texas
34,930 posts, read 19,075,843 times
Reputation: 20500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guamanians View Post
your post sounds great, but it is wrong
In your opinion. You left that part out of your bold statement.

Quote:
Yes, people do aspire to be successful... and when they get there there should not be a huge tax burden pushing them back down.
After a millionaire pays his taxes, he's still a millionaire.

Quote:
Let me ask you a serious question...
OK...

Quote:
What good does it do to tax the rich?
It helps to pay down the huge deficit that Bush ran up, mostly as a result of his big tax breaks for the rich.

Quote:
Does it make you feel better about your personal situation?
It has nothing to do with feelings. Mine, yours, or anyone else's.

It's about harsh economic reality.

Quote:
Jealousy is not an American value.
So, explain why you're attempting to bring it into this discussion.

Quote:
Government already brings in ENOUGH of out tax money... The problem is that they waste it
Way too much is wasted. We agree here.

I'd be especially interested in eliminating waste, particularly in connection to corporate welfare.

Quote:
NEWSFLASH: OUR TAX MONEY IS NOT BEING SPENT WISELY!!!
Would you give to the Red Cross if you found out that 50% were going in their pockets? Well, thats how I feel about taxes... and I'm not the only one who feels this way
True. You're not alone.
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Old 10-20-2010, 01:13 PM
 
9,856 posts, read 13,369,127 times
Reputation: 5453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
You do an awful LOT of assuming don't you?

You're 24 and single, no kids - get back to me when you have like another 30 years "life experience" under your belt, and then tell me HOW productive "looking" for 80 hours a week would be for an over 55 year old in THIS job market, especially in a "city" of 325k tops (that's including rural adjoining counties btw) with minimal manufacturing.

But the TOPIC of this thread is NOT the unemployed - it's why SOME people are "fixated" on those who have more than they do, so kindly stop hijacking to further your own twisted agenda of bashing those who post on the UE forum.
Whatever you want to think. We each have our priorities, and they are not right or wrong. I was responding to the thread, not 'hijacking' it. If you don't like what I say you are more than welcome to ignore me! Just don't complain when others have more than you if you are unwilling to put in the work needed to have that kind of success. No one is forcing you to reply to me. OK sport? Look - I am not married, I don't WANT to be married and I have chosen not to be married right now. I want to be successful and work hard towards that goal. I am giving up having a family in my 20's (I don't want to be married before 30!) so I can get a head start of accumulating some wealth for myself. That is my choice. I don't complain that I don't have a wife and kids because that is my choice! By the same token, if someone chooses to spend time on a family instead of spending time making more money, they shouldn't complain about not having that much 'stuff'! They made the choice. This thread asks why people fixate on other's wealth. I really don't know. Everyone makes their own choices and everyone is directly responsible for their own lives. If someone isn't wealthy, that is because they placed a higher priority on other things. That isn't right or wrong, that is just how it is. If you feel you don't have enough money, shut up and work harder! Complaining about a problem, or fixating on the wealth of others is at best unproductive.

Also, why are you bringing up the UI forum? Please stay on topic.

EDIT: You ask how productive looking for a job for 80 hours/week is at 55 years old? I can guarantee that it is more productive than looking for 40 hours/week!

Last edited by hnsq; 10-20-2010 at 01:23 PM..
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Old 10-20-2010, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 11,254,222 times
Reputation: 3092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post
I don't think i know anyone fixated on what others have, I'm sure there are folks like that out there but I see more people who compare what they have to people who have less, i think thats a worst problem.
People need to be satisfied with what they have, if a person wants more then put out more effort to get it but on the same hand don't brag or gloat over someone who has less.
I agree, especially in any threads regarding welfare or unemployment benefits or the situation regarding "the poor" in this country.
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