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Old 10-22-2010, 06:35 AM
 
9,856 posts, read 13,424,065 times
Reputation: 5453

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Maybe rich people like Soros don't retire because they are just playing the great game. I doubt if Soros or any of his friends have ever worried about where the rent money was coming from. Boredom is their biggest worry so they keep playing.

I have never met any executive that "gave" me a job.


So you have never been hired by someone wealthier than you? That is pretty unique! You have bought the computer/lathe/router/truck/whatever kind of equipment your company uses out of your own pocket? That is very impressive! Most people are given that stuff by an employer (who is wealthier than them). That is amazing that you have personally bought all of the equipment needed to get a business off the ground before working there though!

Quote:
I have met lots that want my work but do not want to pay for it. I have even been stiffed by clients that took my work and never paid.
Yes...every business has this, that is why there is something called a 'bad debt expense' in corporations. That isn't unique to you. Have you ever been stiffed for millions of dollars? Because that happens to corporations very regularly.

Quote:
I do not steal. I work for money and always have. I trade time and skill for money.
As does everyone else. Even the rich. A CEO trades time and skill for money. If you had the same talents as a CEO, you could make millions/year as well.

Quote:
That makes me an employee. I do not work for pleasure nor do I play games. So you can drop the aristocratic attitude that I want freebies.
You don't want freebies, but you want the wealthy to pay a higher percentage of taxes for your benefit? Do you see the contradiction? If you really don't want freebies, then you should be for a flat tax rate (NOTE: not flat amount, but flat rate!) across all income levels, right?

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It seems to be the wealthy are the ones that want government contracts and tax handouts for free.
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And the poor don't? What do you think welfare, social security and food stamps are, if not handouts from tax money?

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I, and many like me just want a fair share but the increasing trend to change employment into tenant farming is making that less and less likely. The country is heading for economic stagnation where the growth in income has been and will continue to be concentrated in the top most 10%.

The ultimate result will be a financial collapse that breaks the banks as thoroughly as the bursting housing bubble broke millions of Americans. I hope to watch the results as we put together a new economy designed for continuous growth without speculation and high lever thievery.
Maybe if you tried to actually learn from those who have made something out of nothing you wouldn't think this way. Instead of getting jealous and upset at those with money, learn how they did it. The percentage of wealthy who are criminals and swindlers is no higher than the percentage of poor who are as such.

You have such a defeatist attitude that you seem to have given up before you start. If you want your fair share, then great! So does everyone else! How is it your fair share though, if you pay 28% in taxes and someone wealthy pays 90% (as you have proposed?) It seems you don't want your fair share, you want more than that.

You don't see your job as fun or a game, and that is fine. You don't want to put a lot of effort into a job, that is fine. But here is the thing - Most wealthy people do enjoy their jobs (and that is why they are OK working 80 hours/week for their entire lives) and most wealthy people take pride in creating something from nothing. If you aren't like that, that is fine, but don't complain about the wealth you choose to give up because of your lack of effort.
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Old 10-22-2010, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,492 posts, read 51,373,616 times
Reputation: 24613

The only thing about you theory that you missed is the simple fact the most of the wealthy did NOT earn their wealth, or even their keep, but inherited the money. That fact discredits the rest of your argument.

Employers have provided me with the tools needed to do the work they wanted as they do with most employees. Do you really think a punch press operator should supply his own 500 ton press or million dollar computer? Businesses hire employees not to provide the employees with an income but to profit from the employees’ labor.

FWIW - I do have the skills to be an executive. I just do not have the total lack of morals required if the people I have worked for are an example. Most were a bunch of preening sycophants more concerned with personal appearance and status than knowing how to get a job done, unless the job was self aggrandizement.

I do believe a progressive income tax system as I have outlined in several posts would be better for the entire society by providing a economy that fostered the strivers to strive even harder. My inheritance taxes would prevent the development of multi generational aristocracies by effectively forcing the children of the rich to work as hard as the rest of us. I also include the poor in this need to work. Subsidizing somebody’s dope business is not a part of my agenda.

I am also getting more than a little tired of your insults. Stop insulting me because I do not believe in your religion of dominance and greed.

[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
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Old 10-22-2010, 07:26 AM
 
1,561 posts, read 1,659,887 times
Reputation: 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
I'm in a higher tax bracket but I'm below the $250,000.00 cut off for tax increases--I pay my fair share. The truth is, low and middle income people are hurting right now. If my tax rate was raised a few percent, it would make a much smaller impact on my family than if they did the same increase to a middle income family, because we already have our basic needs met and a chunk of our wants as well--it would take a portion of our discretionary spending, and not take money away from necessities. I'm not saying I WANT to pay more taxes, but we could afford to pay them if we had to, still be able to save and invest, and we're not even in the target group. If raising taxes is the only way we can get out of this mess, then it makes some sense to target that group. I don't like it, but I get it.
It's admirable that you would be willing to pay a bit more to help out those less fortunate. My issue with "wealth redistribution" is that it won't work and isn't fair.

Say the Feds raise your taxes 5% we both know darn well that the governemnt is just going to squander that money and it won't go to help the poor.
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Old 10-22-2010, 08:08 AM
 
9,856 posts, read 13,424,065 times
Reputation: 5453
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
The only thing about you theory that you missed is the simple fact the most of the wealthy did NOT earn their wealth, or even their keep, but inherited the money. That fact discredits the rest of your argument.
Please check your facts. As of 2008 roughly 2% of the wealth of the nation's richest 1% is inherited money.

The Decline of Inherited Money - The Wealth Report - WSJ

Do you have any facts to back up your claim that 'the wealthy did not earn their wealth?' I would love to see your sources.

Quote:
Employers have provided me with the tools needed to do the work they wanted as they do with most employees. Do you really think a punch press operator should supply his own 500 ton press or million dollar computer? Businesses hire employees not to provide the employees with an income but to profit from the employees’ labor.
I never said an employee should, YOU DID. You claimed no one wealthy ever gave you a job, and yet you use the tools of the wealthy for personal gain (their equipment, their company, their office space).

Quote:
FWIW - I do have the skills to be an executive. I just do not have the total lack of morals required if the people I have worked for are an example. Most were a bunch of preening sycophants more concerned with personal appearance and status than knowing how to get a job done, unless the job was self aggrandizement.
If you are that talented then why don't you become a CEO and treat your employees well? How many executives have you actually spent time with? You seem incredibly ignorant. Making the claim that 'all executives have no morals' is as ignorant as saying 'everyone who is not wealthy is stupid and lazy'. Get it?


Quote:
I do believe a progressive income tax system as I have outlined in several posts would be better for the entire society by providing a economy that fostered the strivers to strive even harder. My inheritance taxes would prevent the development of multi generational aristocracies by effectively forcing the children of the rich to work as hard as the rest of us. I also include the poor in this need to work. Subsidizing somebody’s dope business is not a part of my agenda.
So should we take the money you have to give your children (buying them christmas presents, for example) and give that to the homeless? Following your logic, that would be better for all of society, right?

Quote:
I am also getting more than a little tired of your insults. Stop insulting me because I do not believe in your religion of dominance and greed.
I want people to be able to keep what they earned. How is that a 'religion of dominance and greed'? I am tired of you trying to punish those who work hard enough to lift themselves from mediocrity. I worked my way through college, I moved 1500 miles away from everyone I knew during summers to find a good job to make money to pay down student loans, I now work 80+ hours/week between my full time job and my night time program in school, and I am on track to be wealthy. I did not get money from my alcoholic father. I have given back to them far more than they ever gave me. I created everything I have from scratch. I get very offended when someone like you who is unwilling to put in any extra effort wants to take away the money I worked so hard for because 'most of the rich don't deserve their money!' Shut up and work harder, make something out of yourself. That is what successful people do. Most of the wealthy are like me, not like the 2% that are trust fund babies that you focus on.

Look - if you want everyone to work exactly 40 hours/week and everyone to make the same amount, you have every right to think that. Some of us simply are more motivated than that, and I for one am tired of people like you trying to punish people like me for trying to make something more out of my life.

Edit: How does the fact that I contribute a large part of my salary to charity and those who need help fit into your picture of me as someone with a 'religion of greed'? I would love to hear how you rationalize that.
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