U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 10-20-2010, 11:19 AM
 
Location: NE CT
1,496 posts, read 2,904,616 times
Reputation: 712

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler View Post
I missed the part where he re-wrote it.

Either way, as important as the document is, the REASON it is important is somehow lost on you and yours.

The Declaration of Independence isn't sacred and important because it declares that a CREATOR endows us with rights. It's important because it notes and acknowledges that we HAVE these rights in the first place... Where we get them from isn't terribly relevent to the document and most CERTAINLY wasn't that important to the founding fathers...

If it wasn't important to the FF then why did they specifically write in the DOI "that they are endowed by their creator with certain unaleinable Rights" if they didn't mean it? They wanted to be specific about where rights come from. Ie.... not the government but one is born with them and endowed with them by the creator. No way around it. Making excuses or trying to spin it is fruitless since it is in black and white for all to read.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-20-2010, 11:21 AM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,115,993 times
Reputation: 12759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler View Post
I missed the part where he re-wrote it.

Either way, as important as the document is, the REASON it is important is somehow lost on you and yours.

The Declaration of Independence isn't sacred and important because it declares that a CREATOR endows us with rights. It's important because it notes and acknowledges that we HAVE these rights in the first place... Where we get them from isn't terribly relevent to the document and most CERTAINLY wasn't that important to the founding fathers...
Really? You can channel the thoughts of the author of the Declaration of Independence and all the founding fathers?

It would seem, I believe to most who spend any time studying these documents, that the language in both the Declaration of Independence and our original Constitution, was chosen and worded extremely carefully and most thoughtfully. It is a pity that you don't seem to understand this and choose instead to misrepresent the document in discussion as well as the intent behind the words chosen. Quite frankly your post is intellectually dishonest, IMO.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2010, 11:24 AM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,437,903 times
Reputation: 3945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadex View Post
Isnt that the point of quoting something, to quote it as written?
If he said he was going to quote verbatim, then he should. Otherwise, it's called "paraphrasing" or "referencing".

What you're essentially bleating is that nobody should be allowed to make any reference to any document without it being a direct quote, which is ridiculous.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2010, 11:26 AM
 
6,561 posts, read 12,867,866 times
Reputation: 3165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadex View Post
He will forever go down in history as quoting the document like he has. That is rewriting it in history. Since he is president and all
Nothing Obama says will change what is written in the DOI... Obama isn't "rewriting" anything.

The sick irony is that the only people who are going to perpetuate what Obama said here are the same people such as yourself that are whining because its going to "go down in history".... It'd be freakin' comical if it weren't so pathetic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadex
I dont think the document is important to you at all. Since you are on this board making excuses for it not being quotes correctly.
Nah. The difference between yourself and I is that I'm well aware of WHY its important. See if you follow:

1) That all human have certain inalienable rights = important

2) That the rights of humans are bestowed upon us by a "creator" = irrelevent to the overall point of the Document.

Again, if you are a student of Jefferson like you're pretending to be, you'd know that the role of "Creator" to him, or who created the Earth is pretty unimportant to him.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2010, 11:30 AM
 
16,553 posts, read 11,468,094 times
Reputation: 4230
I like to see all the natural born commies here saying that governments give you your rights.. You people will be the first to be enslaved and like it I guess.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2010, 11:31 AM
 
16,553 posts, read 11,468,094 times
Reputation: 4230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler View Post
Nothing Obama says will change what is written in the DOI... Obama isn't "rewriting" anything.

The sick irony is that the only people who are going to perpetuate what Obama said here are the same people such as yourself that are whining because its going to "go down in history".... It'd be freakin' comical if it weren't so pathetic.



Nah. The difference between yourself and I is that I'm well aware of WHY its important. See if you follow:

1) That all human have certain inalienable rights = important

2) That the rights of humans are bestowed upon us by a "creator" = irrelevent to the overall point of the Document.

Again, if you are a student of Jefferson like you're pretending to be, you'd know that the role of "Creator" to him, or who created the Earth is pretty unimportant to him.
That IS the main point of the document. It spells out the fact that man does not give us those rights. It is the most important piece in there. If it is left out, then who gives us our rights?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2010, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,449 posts, read 14,284,516 times
Reputation: 6904
Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
Glad to hear this. The whole idea of a creator belongs to mythology that can't be proven.
The 'sissies' part is funny. A buzz cut and biceps won't help in determining what is mythology and what is reality.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2010, 11:33 AM
 
6,561 posts, read 12,867,866 times
Reputation: 3165
Quote:
Originally Posted by brien51 View Post
If it wasn't important to the FF then why did they specifically write in the DOI "that they are endowed by their creator with certain unaleinable Rights" if they didn't mean it? They wanted to be specific about where rights come from. Ie.... not the government but one is born with them and endowed with them by the creator. No way around it. Making excuses or trying to spin it is fruitless since it is in black and white for all to read.
Just curious:

Have any of you dillholes ever bothered to read the entire document?

Here's an interesting tidbit from the beginning:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOI
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation
Oh holy hell!!! They're all over the place!!! Is it nature? Is it God? Is it "Nature's God"?

Or does it really not matter what or whom bestowed the rights? Fact is we have them.

Oh dear!!! They mentioned NATURE!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

NATURE'S GOD? BLASPHEME!!!!

Who's THAT? Mother EARTH? GAIA?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!






In other words get a grip and understand that the point of the Declaration of Independence has ZILCH to do with religious believe and EVERYTHING to do with the rights of men, both natural AND political...

Again, anyone who's familiar with Jefferson would know this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2010, 11:33 AM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,115,993 times
Reputation: 12759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler View Post
Nothing Obama says will change what is written in the DOI... Obama isn't "rewriting" anything.

The sick irony is that the only people who are going to perpetuate what Obama said here are the same people such as yourself that are whining because its going to "go down in history".... It'd be freakin' comical if it weren't so pathetic.



Nah. The difference between yourself and I is that I'm well aware of WHY its important. See if you follow:

1) That all human have certain inalienable rights = important

2) That the rights of humans are bestowed upon us by a "creator" = irrelevent to the overall point of the Document.

Again, if you are a student of Jefferson like you're pretending to be, you'd know that the role of "Creator" to him, or who created the Earth is pretty unimportant to him.
You really don't "get it" do you?

Actually it is quite pertinent. Jefferson acknowledge that a Creator and/or natural law bestowed upon men basic inalienable rights. It was intentional to point out that these rights were NOT granted by men, because as such, they could be rescinded by men. Jefferson understood that these inalbienable rights transcend man and wrote the Declaration to emphasis this fact in its introduction as the basis upon validating the list of complaints and seperation from a King who failed to acknolwedge them.

"The evidence of [the] natural right [of expatriation], like that of our right to life, liberty, the use of our faculties, the pursuit of happiness, is not left to the feeble and sophistical investigations of reason, but is impressed on the sense of every man. We do not claim these under the charters of kings or legislators, but under the King of Kings." --Thomas Jefferson to John Manners, 1817. ME 15:124


"A free people [claim] their rights as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate." --Thomas Jefferson: Rights of British America, 1774. ME 1:209, Papers 1:134

"Under the law of nature, all men are born free, every one comes into the world with a right to his own person, which includes the liberty of moving and using it at his own will. This is what is called personal liberty, and is given him by the Author of nature, because necessary for his own sustenance." --Thomas Jefferson: Legal Argument, 1770. FE 1:376
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2010, 11:34 AM
 
16,553 posts, read 11,468,094 times
Reputation: 4230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
Glad to hear this. The whole idea of a creator belongs to mythology that can't be proven.
The 'sissies' part is funny. A buzz cut and biceps won't help in determining what is mythology and what is reality.
So you think man is the most powerful entity in all of the universe? Silly you...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top