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Old 10-20-2010, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Michigan
29,391 posts, read 55,465,734 times
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A textbook distributed to Virginia fourth-graders says that thousands of African Americans fought for the South during the Civil War -- a claim rejected by most historians but often made by groups seeking to play down slavery's role as a cause of the conflict.

washingtonpost.com
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC
4,321 posts, read 5,117,281 times
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Near the origins of public untruths (ie. bull$hit) in this country from the South, thinking of ways to deny or justify slavery (see Social Darwinism).

Add 2 teaspoons of Christianity and 3 tablespoons of big-business greed and you have the modern Republican talking heads.
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Michigan
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Glad they take their education seriously in Virginia...

"The author, Joy Masoff, who is not a trained historian but has written several books, said she found the information about black Confederate soldiers primarily through Internet research, which turned up work by members of the Sons of Confederate Veterans".


She must have stayed at a Holiday Inn.


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Old 10-20-2010, 10:25 AM
 
Location: The D-M-V area
13,691 posts, read 18,389,248 times
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The true number will never be known. The truth is there were black confederate soldiers who served during the Civil War.

Maybe thinking that it's better to discount the role of black soldiers who served in the war has another purpose and has nothing to do with downplaying slavery as a cause of the conflict. Because there were many issues that caused the Civil War slavery was only ONE component.

Claiming that blacks did not serve in the war solidifies their position as being slaves and not active participants in the development of this nation. And that reinforces racism.

Black Confederates in the Civil War
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:28 AM
 
13,675 posts, read 8,964,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plannine View Post
Glad they take their education seriously in Virginia...

"The author, Joy Masoff, who is not a trained historian but has written several books, said she found the information about black Confederate soldiers primarily through Internet research, which turned up work by members of the Sons of Confederate Veterans".


She must have stayed at a Holiday Inn.


That is very, very funny.

Yes, I can just see President Jefferson Davis arming the slaves to fight for States Rights to keep them enslaved (note: sarcasm. General Lee and others did use slaves to help dig trenches, etc).

Heck, it took to almost the end of the Civil War for a black troop to go into action for the United States (if nothing else, watch "Glory", which depicts this episode of history).

I guess the author's research included going on Wikipedia (which, alas, many pinhead poster on this board seems to regard as The Last Word in Truth).
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Michigan
5,376 posts, read 5,332,994 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGem View Post
The true number will never be known. The truth is there were black confederate soldiers who served during the Civil War.

Maybe thinking that it's better to discount the role of black soldiers who served in the war has another purpose and has nothing to do with downplaying slavery as a cause of the conflict. Because there were many issues that caused the Civil War slavery was only ONE component.

Claiming that blacks did not serve in the war solidifies their position as being slaves and not active participants in the development of this nation. And that reinforces racism.

Black Confederates in the Civil War

I'm sure many thought that being a solider got them a couple of meals a day more then they had on the plantation.
And digging a ditch, is alot easier without someone with a whip standing behind you.
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:33 AM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,873,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legalsea View Post
Yes, I can just see President Jefferson Davis arming the slaves to fight for States Rights to keep them enslaved (note: sarcasm. General Lee and others did use slaves to help dig trenches, etc).
I don't think it's too much of stretch, many slaves were very loyal to their owners and even stayed with them after the war.
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:35 AM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,833,055 times
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Black Confederates in the Civil War of Black Confederate Serving the South

Estimates of Black Confederate Serving the South

]How many black Confederates served the South in combat or direct battlefield support ? The numbers vary wildly from 15,000 to 120,000. The truth remains that nobody has an accurate figure. My estimate is that 65,000 blacks scattered across the entire South followed the Confederate armies from one battlefield to the next from 1861 to 1865. Larger numbers of blacks loyally served the Confederacy, not as soldiers but as employees of the Army, Navy, Confederate government or the individual State governments.

Where does this estimate of 65,000 come from ?

Dr. Steiner, Chief Inspector of the United States Sanitary Commission, observed that Gen. "Stonewall" Jackson's troops in occupation of Frederick, Maryland, in 1862: "Over 3,000 Negroes must be included in this number [Confederate troops]. These were clad in all kinds of uniforms, not only in cast-off or captured United States uniforms, but in coats with Southern buttons, State buttons, etc. These were shabby, but not shabbier or seedier than those worn by white men in the rebel ranks. Most of the Negroes had arms, rifles, muskets, sabers, bowie-knives, dirks, etc.....and were manifestly an integral portion of the Southern Confederate Army."
If we assume Dr. Steiner is somewhat reliable and assume that this 3,000 Negroes of Jackson's troops are a representative number of black Confederates in a typical Confederate fighting force, then we may be able to make a rough calculation. First we must determine how many men were part of Jackson's troops ? If Lee had 50,000, was Jackson's force, 25,000 ? That would be a likely estimate. So then what percentage is 3,000 of 25,000 ? Answer: 12 %. So that would tell us that 12% of Jackson's force was black Confederates. Now, if we assume that Steiner meant 3,000 blacks soldiers in Lee's entire 50,000 force that crossed the Potomac, then the percentage of black Confederates is reduced to 6%. Either way it is calculated, black Confederates were a considerable percentage of the total Confederate fighting force.
To extend this reasoning across the entire Confederate Army, what does this represent ? That depends on the total number of men that served in the CS Army, which is also in itself debatable as muster rolls are notoriously incomplete.

For example, let's use for example the 1,000,000 listed names in Broadfoot's Confederate roster compiled by the National Archives. Yes, there is some repeat names, but let's use that figure as an example. What percentage is 12% ? This would translate to 120,000 black Confederates and half that, 60,000. As such, the 65,000 estimate is not an unreasonable estimate. Debatable ? Yes. Refutable ? Absolutely not. Black Confederates imaginary ? Ridiculous

As is often the case on CD we see that liberals all too easily swallow politically correct revisionist history and mock those who do not. It would seem those in this thread who mock are the ones ignorant and undereducated indeed.
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:36 AM
 
6,484 posts, read 6,601,390 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back to NE View Post
Near the origins of public untruths (ie. bull$hit) in this country from the South, thinking of ways to deny or justify slavery (see Social Darwinism).

Add 2 teaspoons of Christianity and 3 tablespoons of big-business greed and you have the modern Republican talking heads.
How exactly does Christianity teach that? How does Christianity cause this? Or are you just blowing smoke?
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:40 AM
 
5,391 posts, read 7,206,852 times
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Amid the arguments here whether or not there were black troops fighting for the South, I don't think that the contrary is being taught in children's textbooks, that is, I don't think it is taught that there were no blacks who fought for the South. If anything, it's probably not a point that's mentioned.

I find it troubling that the author would include a claim about thousands of black Southern troops, based on nothing other than Internet research drawn in large part from a Lost Cause organization. If she showed she used authentic historical records, then I'd feel better about it.

Here is some Internet research on the topic. Scroll down to the Confederacy part.
Colored Troops in the American Civil War

And more:
Despite their distain for black Union soldiers, early in 1865 the Confederate congress decided it must use slaves as soldiers and Jefferson Davis planned to buy 40,000 slaves to work with the army. Confederate General Patrick Cleburne had suggested this once unthinkable idea early in 1864. Davis and Cleburne both believed that they would free these men and their families after the war and this caused other southerners to strenuously object to the proposal of Confederate black soldiers. General Robert E. Lee had earlier told the Confederate congress that he believed these extra fighting men were absolutely needed (Lee, of course, believed from the war’s onset, that the south would be better off without slavery). The bill to allow black soldiers to be acquired passed in the Confederate House, but failed in its Senate. Virginia’s state legislature authorized its own bill and organized two companies of slaves in Richmond, but the war ended before these could serve.

Civil War Black Soldiers, Black Soldiers, Robert Gould Shaw, 54th Massachusetts
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