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Old 10-29-2010, 09:05 AM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,297,960 times
Reputation: 3122

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Better solution: eliminate public funded education entirely. Government's only function is to act as a credentials data bank and testing agency.
Parents can educate their children by whatever means they choose / afford. The children who pass examination get credentials, regardless of how they learned the material.
You plan lays the ground work for massive social inequality. It's not like we are not having enough problems in that area with stagnant wages for the middle class.

You are laying the groundwork for the failure of the United States when we need our educational system to improve not be taken apart.
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,229 posts, read 26,172,300 times
Reputation: 15621
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
I don't think there should be federal government unions but I think the other public sector unions should be up to the states, counties and towns. You know, I'm not about to tell California or New York, for example, how not to drive their respective cars into a deeper ditch as long as I'm not expected to pony up for their unions. If they are willing to pay through the nose for them, in the form of taxes, that's their business. Just don't come crawling to the rest of us for your excesses. I'd like to know how many New York and California union members stay in their states after they retire.
The county and local public unions are the worst offender here in New York and also California.
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:20 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,142,009 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by stayinformed40 View Post
This is seriously pathetic. The time for Unions has come and gone. While the economy is in shambles and people are without work, these idiots are out getting cosmetic procedures - on taxpayer dollars.

Buffalo, N.Y. Teachers Spend $9M in Taxpayer Cash in '09 on Cosmetic Surgery - FoxNews.com
From Dr. Britt's 14 points of Fascism:

9. Power of corporations protected

Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.


10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated

Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,756,720 times
Reputation: 24863
As we now have the internationalization of business, he time has come for Unions to expand to truly international status and enforce labor health, safety and wage standards on business ALL OVER THE WORLD!
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:33 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,142,009 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
As we now have the internationalization of business, he time has come for Unions to expand to truly international status and enforce labor health, safety and wage standards on business ALL OVER THE WORLD!
Great idea!


Isn't it pathetic that SOME average American who are against unions want only the wealthiest people to have all the power....it's so stupid how they go against their own interests...unbelievable...
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,756,720 times
Reputation: 24863
Most of the correspondent on these boards that are anti government and anti union seem to dream that they will soon own profitable busineses and become multi-millionairs. They think government and unions are getting in the way. The reality is that 90+% of all start up businesses fail, most due to undercapitalization or inability, is actually what is in their way.
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Old 10-29-2010, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,229 posts, read 26,172,300 times
Reputation: 15621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?! View Post
From Dr. Britt's 14 points of Fascism:

9. Power of corporations protected

Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.


10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated

Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.
If you want to have a union in private company be my guest but public unions are a different story. If the price of a car is increased I can choose not to buy it, that’s a different story for public unions. The top 10-20% aren’t being affected and could care less. Public unions make their gains at the expense of the middle class.

I am not against all unions and some are quite reasonable but the public unions in NY for the most part have gone too far and it has a great deal to do with the tax rate in NY. Unions were originally formed for the protection of employee’s particularly in mining and steel because of the abuses of the wealthy companies, today they have other motives.
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Old 10-29-2010, 02:08 PM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,447,180 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
The county and local public unions are the worst offender here in New York and also California.
NJ too
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Old 10-29-2010, 02:10 PM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,447,180 times
Reputation: 4243
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhouse2001 View Post
Unions are made of people, some good some bad. As long as the corporations meet their overreaching demands, why are the unions the bad guy? What incentive does a corporation have to NOT meet the demands other than to forfeit the profit for those at the top? It almost always agrees with the union demands because it knows it can pass the cost off to the consumer and complain that it's hands were tied! The antagonism between corporations and employees does not need to be resolved by killing one side as the OP suggests.

My best friend told me that at his company's meetings, no one asks questions or expresses concerns. The company just announced it's raising the employee contribution to health care costs by 75%. Everyone was shocked but anyone who stood up to say "That's wrong!" or similar words KNEW they would be taken aside and let go without cause either later that day or in the ensuing week. A union would give those employees a secure voice to bargain for a lesser increase.

Unions are essential to the situation. That BOTH corporations and unions have become greedy and corrupt means we have not learned much in the Industrial and post-Industrial Ages. I blame that on the corporations who have shown they cannot be trusted. Force is, sadly, the only language they'll respond to.

Oh BS. I'm in a union and our contract was broken 3 times in the last 2 years and the union couldn't do a damn thing about it. They are IN BED with the company that their members work at. Don't ever forget that.
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Old 10-29-2010, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,253,825 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Funny how capitalism is ok for corporations but not workers.

Instead of blaming the union perhaps a little more attention should be paid to those who negotiated the contract.
Of course, you are right, but there were union people involved in the negotiations, weren't there?
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