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We do need to do something, but putting troops in Afghanistan for a prolonged period goes contrary to the mission. As much as I despise radical Islam, they cannot be beaten by a conventional army because they aren't playing the same game. Covert special forces - at this point - would probably be more efficient and more cost effective. We also need to go after their funding - which is Saudi Arabia (for the most part) - but we know that ain't gonna' happen.
Bingo..if you are going to fight then do it on equal footing.
Conventional war against an unconventional enemy who does not follow those rules of engagement ?
We do need to do something, but putting troops in Afghanistan for a prolonged period goes contrary to the mission. As much as I despise radical Islam, they cannot be beaten by a conventional army because they aren't playing the same game. Covert special forces - at this point - would probably be more efficient and more cost effective. We also need to go after their funding - which is Saudi Arabia (for the most part) - but we know that ain't gonna' happen.
The reason we can't win these types of wars is because we don't fight them properly. You have to just level the entire place. Sorry, but that's how you win a war. You can't win playing footsies with these A-Holes. Defunding them is impossible, stopping governments from supporting them is impossible. The only way is to hurt them so badly that they just lose their will to fight anymore. It works, it always has. Once we started these pansie assed wars we never won.
Bingo..if you are going to fight then do it on equal footing.
Conventional war against an unconventional enemy who does not follow those rules of engagement ?
Here's what you do. If they are hiding amongst the civilians, either the civilians take matters into their own hands or get blown to bits. Easy as that. These people want to kill as many people as possible, we have to stop mamby pambying.
Let me ask you people something. What do we do about people trying to come here and blow things up? Who gets held responsible? Who do we go after for doing these things? Nobody thinks that holding these governments that support these terrorists accountable is a good idea? So what do we do? Just live with it and throw our arms in the air? Yeah right.....
Let me ask you this. In the wake of 9-11, how did watching these buildings fall to earth and the loss of 3000+ American citizens make you feel? Angry, sad, vengeful, or perhaps all of the above? I know it made me all these things. So lets consider that every time a stray bomb or missile or even a single bullet goes astray, that some father or mother, brother or sister on some dirt farm in Afghanistan or Iraq who only wishes to provide for their families becomes a statistic. Do you not think that they too feel anger, sadness and vengeful?
Yet before we get to even this, there are whole nations of people who see the United States as an occupier and this foments anger and rage, and is also the first reason Bin Laden gave for his attacks, American military stationed in Saudi Arabia. Now whether or not you or I agree with this, it really ticks those folks off.
Now, do we respond when attacked by terrorist, of course we do, should we invade an entire nation and remain for decade or two or three because a handful of radical terrorist want to hurt us? Do you not realize that there is a diminishing return on such styled warfare? We spend trillions, TRILLIONS to TRY to prevent terrorist from harming us and this is cost effective or even remotely logical?
We had a window of opportunity in Afghanistan at the onset, when even the Muslim world openly and publicly supported the US in its attempts to stamp out the likes of Al Qaeda and the Taliban that harbored them. We made a grave mistake and ended up in Iraq and during the time we focused there, those who wish us ill will were busying building in Afghanistan, Pakistan, as well as all the other "Stan" states. What our mission was then, is not what our mission is now.
What do you propose we do, how many more billions should the American tax payer give to fund the corrupt government that receives cash from Iran and also supports terrorist elements in the country? How many lives are worth it?
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD
The reason we can't win these types of wars is because we don't fight them properly. You have to just level the entire place. Sorry, but that's how you win a war. You can't win playing footsies with these A-Holes. Defunding them is impossible, stopping governments from supporting them is impossible. The only way is to hurt them so badly that they just lose their will to fight anymore. It works, it always has. Once we started these pansie assed wars we never won.
If leveling Afghanistan would stop it, then maybe they would - but it won't stop it. We would have to level Pakistan, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Indonesia, Bangladesh/Myanmar, The country-side of Chechnya and even parts of China. The radical Islamic schools (madrassas) all teach & breed these insurgents and these are where many of the young, future terrorist/Islamic wackos are centrally located. This war is bigger than just Iraq & Afghanistan and it is bigger than any one army. We need to fight it smarter, not harder.
Here's what you do. If they are hiding amongst the civilians, either the civilians take matters into their own hands or get blown to bits. Easy as that. These people want to kill as many people as possible, we have to stop mamby pambying.
Yes, you can kill every man, woman and child, every beast, burn the crops and leave it a waste land in the biblical fashion as God commanded Joshuah. However this is the 21st century, and America in case you hadn't noticed is DEPENDENT on the rest of the world. We need that Arab oil, we need those Chinese goods, and we need all that foreign investment because American cannot live as an island unto itself. So when you go around just nuking the joint with carpet bombing aiming to destroy all life, it tends to make your friends and allies avoid you like the plague. No one picks you for the kickball team.
If it were so easy, then every keyboard commando would have long since joined to drop fire on the enemy but the reality of the world we live in isn't like Rambo the movie.
If leveling Afghanistan would stop it, then maybe they would - but it won't stop it. We would have to level Pakistan, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Indonesia, Bangladesh/Myanmar, The country-side of Chechnya and even parts of China. The radical Islamic schools (madrassas) all teach & breed these insurgents and these are where many of the young, future terrorist/Islamic wackos are centrally located. This war is bigger than just Iraq & Afghanistan and it is bigger than any one army. We need to fight it smarter, not harder.
Exactly! Fighting "terrorism" is like fighting oxygen molecules or a war on dirt. You can do it if you choose but the results are known before you start.
I can't provide a link but I watched a news report that threw out the stat that there are less than a total of 100 Al Qaida in Afghanistan. The taliban are a right wing, conservative, religious faction that have existed in Afghanistan forever. They were our Allies and we equiped them and trained them in the 80s. If we left them alone, they would leave us alone. Trying to fight terrorism in Afghanistan is like trying to fight melanoma after it has spread throughout the body. We could have wiped it out when it was a small irregular mole on our skin, (Think Tora Bora) but terrorism is now a world based front. Germany, Saudi Arabia, Great Britian, Pakistan, Indonesia, you name the country and there are terrorist cells. It is estimated that Afghanistan has the largest concentration of base metals on the planet. These base metals will be crucial to industrial production in the 21st century. That's the real elephant in the room that nobody mentions and the hidden agenda behind all those bases. America wants to secure these resources for ourselves. Nothing less than imperialism of the most blatent sort disguised as national security.
Are they really any different ? Are we winning either of them ?
Do we even know who our enemy is ?
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