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Old 10-31-2010, 01:16 PM
 
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If you had to choose which party most represented what our founding fathers saw for this country would you be able to choose one party over the next? If so, which party would that be?
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:06 PM
 
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I don't think either party can make that claim right now. However, i'm someone who thinks that the whole exaltation of the "Founding Fathers" goes a bit too far. Everyone like to talk about how this country needs to "go back" to the intent of the Constitution and the Founders. Well, when was that? To me, it's likely that the Founders probably started violating the Constitution the day after it was ratified.
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:45 PM
 
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Probably most along the lines of the Constitution and Libertarian parties. Small government, small federal debt, maximum individual and state liberty.
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Florida
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I think perhaps our founding fathers would say that all of the American political parties are the reincanation of the monarchy against which they fought.

The kings and queens of old Europe ruled by the "divine right of kings" the idea that God had appointed the monarch to rule over the masses. And as such, the kings and queens believed in their God given right to live in the utmost of luxury while the serfs lived subsistence existences struggling to pay the taxes which funded the lavish lifestyles of the court.

Whether democrat or republican, tea partyist or left wing liberal, I think most of us are tired to seeing our supposed representatives in Washington living lavish lifestyles while so many Americans struggle to survive.

Is there anyone in elected office in Washington D.C. who doesn't have the "let them eat cake" attitude of Marie Antoinette?

They live in lavish homes funded by taxpayer dollars; they ride in limosines and fly private planes for which we pay; they dine on restaurant meals that cost more than my week's salary at the expense of the taxpayers.

After only one term in office they get a lifetime pension, lifetime health care, and other lifetime perks.

Personally, I think the founding fathers would say that NONE of them in Washington are what they had in mind when they risked their lives to fight the against a monarch living in luxury while the majority of his subjects struggled just to survive.
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Old 10-31-2010, 04:10 PM
 
3,697 posts, read 5,913,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EclecticTastes View Post
I think perhaps our founding fathers would say that all of the American political parties are the reincanation of the monarchy against which they fought.

The kings and queens of old Europe ruled by the "divine right of kings" the idea that God had appointed the monarch to rule over the masses. And as such, the kings and queens believed in their God given right to live in the utmost of luxury while the serfs lived subsistence existences struggling to pay the taxes which funded the lavish lifestyles of the court.

Whether democrat or republican, tea partyist or left wing liberal, I think most of us are tired to seeing our supposed representatives in Washington living lavish lifestyles while so many Americans struggle to survive.

Is there anyone in elected office in Washington D.C. who doesn't have the "let them eat cake" attitude of Marie Antoinette?

They live in lavish homes funded by taxpayer dollars; they ride in limosines and fly private planes for which we pay; they dine on restaurant meals that cost more than my week's salary at the expense of the taxpayers.

After only one term in office they get a lifetime pension, lifetime health care, and other lifetime perks.

Personally, I think the founding fathers would say that NONE of them in Washington are what they had in mind when they risked their lives to fight the against a monarch living in luxury while the majority of his subjects struggled just to survive.

Well said. I agree.

Now, how can we vote them all out?
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Old 10-31-2010, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
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Originally Posted by oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots View Post
If you had to choose which party most represented what our founding fathers saw for this country would you be able to choose one party over the next? If so, which party would that be?
The founding father that is best represented by either party today would be Hamilton.

Jefferson saw the country as a collection of small family farmers. Thats why he did the Louisiana purchase. He thought this would best secure his vision for our country.

Hamilton had a much more central government view, that controlled markets, money, and interest rates. He wanted a much more industrialized country, with the central government playing the primary role as decider.

So, Democratic-Republicans aren't represented by either party, although, technically you can trace the modern Democratic party to them.

The federalists are really represented by both parties in power today. Both parties believe in a strong centralized government that makes decisions on almost everything.
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Old 10-31-2010, 04:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots View Post
If you had to choose which party most represented what our founding fathers saw for this country would you be able to choose one party over the next? If so, which party would that be?
Which founding father?

Gouverneur Morris who wanted a strong central government?

Charles Pinckney whose main concern was the preservation of slavery?

Alexander Hamilton who wanted a government more like the British Parliamentary system and believed in vigorous federalism?

Elbridge Gerry who wanted nothing to do with the Constitution?

Franklin who opposed property requirements for voters?

Madison who at one point wanted to grant the federal government the right to veto any and all state legislation?

We could go on highlighting the various other 49 proponents and opponents of proposals to the Constitution and we still wouldn't have an answer to the question.

Personally I think that it is a fool's errand to try and divine how men, dead for some 200 years would have felt about a country far more populous and complex than any 18th century American could have foreseen.
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Old 10-31-2010, 05:13 PM
 
52,134 posts, read 27,922,582 times
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Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Which founding father?

Gouverneur Morris who wanted a strong central government?

Charles Pinckney whose main concern was the preservation of slavery?

Alexander Hamilton who wanted a government more like the British Parliamentary system and believed in vigorous federalism?

Elbridge Gerry who wanted nothing to do with the Constitution?

Franklin who opposed property requirements for voters?

Madison who at one point wanted to grant the federal government the right to veto any and all state legislation?

We could go on highlighting the various other 49 proponents and opponents of proposals to the Constitution and we still wouldn't have an answer to the question.

Personally I think that it is a fool's errand to try and divine how men, dead for some 200 years would have felt about a country far more populous and complex than any 18th century American could have foreseen.
Brilliant. Like i said, too much is made of the Founders...as great as they were.
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Old 10-31-2010, 05:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Brilliant. Like i said, too much is made of the Founders...as great as they were.
I think the problem with the deification of the Founders springs from the Judeo-Christian dependence upon divinely inspired scriptures in this case setting the Constitution as some sort of semi-secular Ten Commandments instead of accepting the fact that it was a political document developed through a series of equally political compromises designed to win greater acceptance by a skeptical populace and begrudging state and economic power centers.
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Old 10-31-2010, 05:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Founders probably started violating the Constitution the day after it was ratified.
Not probably, most certainly. The first major "betrayal" was the passage of the Alien and Sedition Act of 1798 by the 5th Congress at the behest of the 2nd President, John Adams which effectively aborted the 1st Amendment by making it a crime to even criticize the President.
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