Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-07-2010, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
5,984 posts, read 13,382,486 times
Reputation: 3370

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Well, I'm going to be blunt. I think you are pretty mixed up.

Conservatism is consistent with Christianity. Liberalism (socialism) is not.
This is your opinion, but I strongly disagree. There's nothing wrong with moderate socialism.

Quote:
You mentioned you are against the death penalty, a typical "liberal" view. But the death penalty was prescribed by God as just punishment for the crime of murder, because murder is a sin against God himself. Why? Because man was created in God's image. Murder is the shedding of innocent blood; therefore, the death penalty is not murder.
I see that you're referring to Genesis 9:6. I agree that God placed that principle in place for a time, but I believe it is no longer in effect. You're basically saying murder cannot be forgiven (at least in this life), which is not a Christian position. Scripture tells us that God forgave many murderers, including King David (called a man after God's own heart) and the Apostle Paul (who had a hand in Stephen's murder). Also, Jesus spared the life of an adulteress (who was guilty of a capital crime under Mosaic law) by saying "let he who is without sin cast the first stone," and told her "go and sin no more." I don't think the death penalty is "murder" in the sense of killing an "innocent" (define innocent -- no one is truly innocent) person, but I do think it's wrong because it removes any possibility for redemption. Many murderers have repented after killing someone: should we not spare their lives? The blood of Christ has removed their sins.

Quote:
Taxing one group more because they have more is more consistent with Marxism. I personally favor a flat tax. Everybody pays the same percentage. A percentage being what it is, the wealthy will be paying more, but the same percentage. What could be more fair? But to punish them by making them pay a larger percentage is wrong.
I strongly disagree. Scripture does not favor the rich, and states "to whom much is given, much is required." While not an economic statement, I think the principle still applies. The rich should pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes. Even a 99% tax rate leaves a billionaire with $10,000,000 (ten million!) dollars, still fabulously wealthy. High taxes help pay for social programs to help the poor. God is very passionate about helping the poor. You do know what Marxism is, right? It's an economic policy. Soviet Russia added in a lot of other things, turning Marxism into the much more extreme Leninism and Stalinism. No liberal advocates those policies.

Quote:
As for war. Do you not believe that there is evil in the world? You cannot and should not negotiate with evil. Did Christ negotiate with evil? No, he did not. Should we have negotiated with Hitler? Japan? Is "diplomacy" changing Ahmadinejad's mind about the West? Should we be "negotiating" with a man that wants Jews wiped off the face of the earth? No, we should not. The man is evil.
Scripture also tells us that all men are evil. It's not exclusive to dictators. God will deal with wicked leaders, Scripture makes that clear. War takes the lives of innocent civilians, it destroys countries, it kills American troops. I realize it may be necessary in extreme cases (I feel WWII was one such case), but it should be avoided if at all possible. Diplomacy is one good way to avoid war. Also, American interventionist foreign policy has helped terrorists and dictators rise (Iran, Saddam Hussein, Al Qaeda).

Christ never fought in a physical war. Scripture says "we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers (evil spirits)."

Quote:
Muslims want to wipe out the West. They believe America is the Great Satan. Do you think we should negotiate? I don't. When they attack us, we must respond with all the military power we have.
This is crap.

Quote:
Even God sent his people to war, and told them to leave no living thing. And to not take any animals.
God sent the nation of Israel to war in Old Testament times. America is not Israel, and this is not the OT. God NEVER commands the Christian Church (His people in this age) to go to physical war.

Quote:
Wars unfortunately are necessary, because people are evil.
War may be necessary in a few RARE cases. The Iraq War is not one of those cases.

Quote:
How do you know Barack Obama is not a Muslim? He has referred to his "Muslim faith" on more than a few occasions, before he "corrected" himself at the prompting of his interviewer. He was raised a Muslim, went to a Madrasa (Muslim school) in Indonesia. His "Christian" experience has been black liberation theology, and "collective salvation" which bares no resemblance to Biblical Christianity. Therefore, I cannot call him a "brother in Christ". I don't know him.
There is NO EVIDENCE that Barack Obama is a Muslim. Is he a Christian? I don't know -- only God and Barack Obama know that. However, the idea that the president is some "secret Muslim" is absolutely preposterous.

Quote:
Neither do we know that he was not born in Kenya. His grandmother says he was, and so do some of his other family members. We have no valid birth certificate showing a US birth.
This is crap.

Quote:
Illegal aliens are law breakers. They have entered our country illegally. Do you not support law enforcement? Should we all become law breakers? What kind of country would we have?
This argument doesn't make any sense. I support immigration reform and a guest worker program, not "let all the illegals in."

Quote:
Finally, who is saying that Sarah Palin is the "next George Washington" or are you just thowing that in for effect and showing your contempt for her and the "Tea Party" movement, which is responsible for this historic victory last Tuesday?
Glenn Beck said that Sarah Palin could be "the next George Washington."

Last edited by northstar22; 11-07-2010 at 11:54 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-07-2010, 11:50 AM
LML
 
Location: Wisconsin
7,100 posts, read 9,096,576 times
Reputation: 5191
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Well, I'm going to be blunt. I think you are pretty mixed up.

Conservatism is consistent with Christianity. Liberalism (socialism) is not.
I would STRONGLY suggest that you read Acts 2:42-47 which, in part, reads; "All believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods they gave to everyone as he had need." Try actually reading the New Testament once.....it might really open your eyes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2010, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,475,124 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Well, I'm going to be blunt. I think you are pretty mixed up.

Conservatism is consistent with Christianity. Liberalism (socialism) is not.

I seriously disagree, and there have been lots of posts on here that represent my views, so I'll not elaborate.

You mentioned you are against the death penalty, a typical "liberal" view. But the death penalty was prescribed by God as just punishment for the crime of murder, because murder is a sin against God himself. Why? Because man was created in God's image. Murder is the shedding of innocent blood; therefore, the death penalty is not murder.

Jesus' comment on the death penalty by stoning:
"Let him who has not sinned cast the first stone."

[b]Taxing one group more because they have more is more consistent with Marxism. I personally favor a flat tax. Everybody pays the same percentage. A percentage being what it is, the wealthy will be paying more, but the same percentage. What could be more fair? But to punish them by making them pay a larger percentage is wrong.

As for war. Do you not believe that there is evil in the world? You cannot and should not negotiate with evil. Did Christ negotiate with evil? No, he did not. Should we have negotiated with Hitler? Japan? Is "diplomacy" changing Ahmadinejad's mind about the West? Should we be "negotiating" with a man that wants Jews wiped off the face of the earth? No, we should not. The man is evil.

Render unto Ceaser that which is Ceaser's, and unto God that which is God's. If anything, Jesus was saying to stay out of politics.

Muslims want to wipe out the West. They believe America is the Great Satan. Do you think we should negotiate? I don't. When they attack us, we must respond with all the military power we have.

This is pure nonsense. Nuke em, eh?

Even God sent his people to war, and told them to leave no living thing. And to not take any animals.

Wars unfortunately are necessary, because people are evil.

We ask not that God is on our side, but that we are on God's side, said A. Lincoln, that great Illinoisan.

How do you know Barack Obama is not a Muslim? He has referred to his "Muslim faith" on more than a few occasions, before he "corrected" himself at the prompting of his interviewer. He was raised a Muslim, went to a Madrasa (Muslim school) in Indonesia. His "Christian" experience has been black liberation theology, and "collective salvation" which bares no resemblance to Biblical Christianity. Therefore, I cannot call him a "brother in Christ". I don't know him.

So what?

Neither do we know that he was not born in Kenya. His grandmother says he was, and so do some of his other family members. We have no valid birth certificate showing a US birth.

We have a valid BC, and none from anywhere else. His step-grandmother was duped, by a minister, no less.

Illegal aliens are law breakers. They have entered our country illegally. Do you not support law enforcement? Should we all become law breakers? What kind of country would we have?

When my ancestors entered the US, there were no quotas, no visas, no sponsors needed. I am not for blanket amnesty, but neither am I for breaking up families, and deporting contributers to our economy.

Finally, who is saying that Sarah Palin is the "next George Washington" or are you just thowing that in for effect and showing your contempt for her and the "Tea Party" movement, which is responsible for this historic victory last Tuesday?

Alread answered; it was that idiot Beck, who claims to know something about history.
************************************************** *******
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2010, 12:32 PM
 
56,989 posts, read 35,116,741 times
Reputation: 18824
In my experience, if you observe most Christians, most aren't really conservative. Hell, i'd barely consider them to be Christians in the first place, let alone conservative Christians. I don't even think that 90% of the people who call themselves Conservatives are actually conservative either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2010, 12:42 PM
 
Location: .....
956 posts, read 1,112,314 times
Reputation: 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
If you think that's bad, I'm an atheist Republican - think how lonely I am.
Lol I'm atheist too and have never met an atheist Republican. You made my week. Good for you!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2010, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,293 posts, read 84,292,537 times
Reputation: 114639
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazoopilot View Post
Am I the only non-(politically) conservative Christian out there?

The title is a little hyperbolic, I mean, my close friends back home (in Michigan) are all left-leaning Christians. However, it seems like any sort of Christian organization leans FAR to the right, any organization, commentary or event targeting Christians has a right-wing slant, many churches promote the right-wing agenda and the vast majority of Christians I meet here (Minnesota) are far-right conservative Republicans. Additionally, it seems like most Democrats, moderates and / or liberals are atheists or agnostics.

I honestly feel like I'm the only one who feels this way. I read my Bible, and I don't see where it supports the Tea Party agenda. However, apparently most Christians think it does?! I just don't get why American Christianity seems to be married to the right-wing agenda? In my opinion, Republican economic policy, foreign policy and social agenda (other than abortion) stands in opposition to Biblical values. Are abortion and gay marriage really the ONLY issues American Christians care about?!

My views:
I am a Christian (non-denominational)
I believe Jesus is the only way to God
I believe the Bible is the word of God
I would describe myself as politically moderate
I am for a progressive tax system (tax the rich more)
I'm against "free trade" -- I support protectionist policies
I support single-payer, universal healthcare
I'm AGAINST the Iraq and Afghanistan wars (bring our troops home now!!!)
I oppose war in most cases -- I believe in diplomacy over military action
I'm against the death penalty
I'm against abortion in all cases
I'm personally against gay marriage, but I don't think the government should ban it
I support amnesty for undocumented immigrants and a guest worker program
I don't think Sarah Palin is the next George Washington
I don't listen to Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Michael Savage or other such demagogues
I'm not a Tea Party member
I know Barack Obama is not a Muslim (or born in Kenya)

Am I really the only Christian who feels this way?
No. I don't agree with everything you say, either (I'm Episcopalian, pro-choice, don't believe the ENTIRE bible is the word of God, and think that there are other paths to God besides Christianity, don't care if people are gay or not), but I don't think Sarah Palin could even stand up to MARTHA Washington, am against the death penalty, wouldn't know any of those TV-show people if they snuck up from behind and bit me in the ass, and think that the "Obama is a Muslim/born in Kenya" story is quite possibly the most retarded conspiracy theory to pop up in years.

I think the Christian right has lost its grip--if indeed it ever had it--on what Christ taught. Love God and one another--pretty hard to do. It takes a lot of effort and pretty much a lifetime to become the kind of person you should be, constantly reaching for a level of spirituality that is impossible to grasp.

Trying to impose laws upon others that make YOU more comfortable, rejecting others because they are not who YOU think they should be, claiming to be acting in the name of God to bring sorrow and harm to others--that's not Christian. That's our base human failing at work--everything we are supposed to strive not to be.

Conversely, in some things I am very conservative. I believe in accountability--if you harm others, especially the weak/innocent/children, etc., don't stand there and try to make me feel sorry for you because of some excuse of having a bad childhood or something. You go to prison for life, and maybe you will be able to make what you can there out of yourself. I believe people should freely give to the poor by choice rather than being forced to do so by a government order.

I don't favor one political party over another--by virtue of the fact that you've been elected to political office in this country, you've already sold your soul to somebody to get there.

Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 11-07-2010 at 05:58 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-07-2010, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Land of debt and Corruption
7,545 posts, read 8,312,279 times
Reputation: 2888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
If you think that's bad, I'm an atheist Republican - think how lonely I am.
I know quite a few! Many of which happen to be close family members including my mother and grandmother. You're definitely not alone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2010, 08:51 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,088 posts, read 29,139,624 times
Reputation: 7812
Just to toss a new mix--

Christian with leanings towards Anrchy...is this not the new Maytag repairman syndrome...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2010, 09:27 AM
 
Location: it depends
6,369 posts, read 6,394,315 times
Reputation: 6388
Default Each field is way too wide...

Grandma used to tell us not to discuss religion or politics at the dinner table. This topic mixes up religion and politics, and the field is WAY too wide.

In the real world, you can find everything from atheist rightwingers to bible-quoting leftwingers. Among church leaders you can find the whole spectrum of political belief.

Reminds me of the wag who said "You can prove anything you want with the bible, if you rearrange the letters."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2010, 02:13 PM
 
1,020 posts, read 1,374,455 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
This is not Biblical, therefore not Christian. You cannot believe this an be called a Christian. Jesus said "I am the way ... no one comes to the father but through me". Obviously, you do not know the Bible.



Men wrote as the Holy Spirit led them. It is the inspired Word of God. What errors and untruths? They are in your mind only. It is what you believe. You are not a Christian. You do not believe God.



Oh, really? Why? You don't know what's in it. You don't know what it will cost you. From what we have learned so far, it is going to cost all Americans more than what they pay now, to say nothing of all the other legislation, regulations, etc. they have hidden in it. It is bad legislation, passed with bad motives and agains the will of the people. I was written no by congress but by the "Center for American Progress" and other left wing groups that hate America. It must be repealed, because it is going to destroy us if it is not.



As I said in another post: Negotiation with evil is never an "option". You do not compromise with evil.


Why? God prescribed it for the crime of murder because it is a sin agains God himself.


Abortion is murder. Murder is the shedding of innocent blood. There is no one more innocent than a baby in the womb. How could anyone be so cold as to murder a baby in the womb? That is the highest form of evil, in my opinion.


Marriage was ordained by God. Let's not make a mockery of what God has created.


Tried that before. Here we are again. Didn't work the last time and it isn't going to work this time either. Send them home.


So, you are a Marxist. Sorry, wrong direction. I love liberty. I want my country back. This man is evil. Plain and simple.
So, Nononsense, I assume shrimp nor any other shellfish has NEVER passed your lips. Nor do you mix fabrics. And, since the Bible says divorce is the same as adultery, I am sure neither you nor anyone with whom you associate or are related has EVER gone through a divorce. It's all in the Bible. We already know you are NOT your brother's keeper. And that's in the Bible too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top