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I suspect that the methods used today are different than what the Japanese used more than half a century ago. I also am sure that we probably have doctors standing by to save the interrogatee if something should go wrong, wheras the Japanese millitary of WW2 would have let them die.
If I committed terrorist acts and had material information that might save American lives I would completely expect to be waterboarded. I understand Navy Seals go through something quite similar. If our guys can do it in training I think our enemies who want to kill us are fair game as well.
I went to church last month. I haven't been yet this month. I'll probably make it on the 21st but that will be the only Sunday this month. So, does that make me a 'churchgoer'?
Of course they do. Churchgoers sit in a hard chair or bench for 1-6 hours weekly and have someone yell at them about how much they suck and will suffer in hell for it.
Torture just seems normal to them.
My church has padded seats. And we start off with about 15-20 minutes of singing--standing up....followed by some announcements...and some general housekeeping items. My pastor will then speak (not yell) for about 30-40 minutes. I don't know what church you've been attending, but it doesn't sound like it's typical.
I'm strongly against abortion AND torture. I value ALL human life. Also, I'm a devout Christian.
"Religion" may be evil, but a relationship with Christ certainly is not. Sadly, a lot of "so-called Christians" use their faith to justify atrocities. However, Scripture does not condone a person torturing another human being. It's wrong -- plain and simple.
I think there is no moral comparison. I would think if someone tortured someone just for the enjoyment of it, then that's really bad. But what we're talking about is torturing someone to get information so that lives can be saved.
To compare torture to save lives, with other sorts of evil things, is foolish.
Then to compare it to abortion?
Torture to prevent a terrorist act, so save lives, you aren't even going to kill the person vs. killing your own offspring because you were irresponsible and a child would not be convenenient to you?
Abortion is vastly worse, and vastly more selfish. Torture is meant to get information to save lives. Abortion is about avoiding responsibility for a child that's not convenient to you...
Torture does not get valuable information to save lives. Studies have proven that. It doesn't save lives. It violates the Geneva Conventions, it violates the principles of our country. It's unethical, immoral, evil and wrong. Period.
I see torture as worse than death. The only purpose of torture is to cause maximum pain to another individual.
As for abortion, it's an entirely different subject. It is pure evil -- very selfish and wrong. However, I don't have a problem with opposing both abortion and torture. I don't see why I would need to support one and oppose the other. I see child abuse (a form of torture) as on equal footing as abortion.
I go to church regularly and see no problem with torturing terrorists at all. They are out to kill us, after all. The Bible is full of passages of the righteous slaughtering thier foes. The forces of evil SHOULD be killed.
One of the Ten Commandments is "Thou Shall Not Kill", but that refers to fellow neighbors, countrymen, and family members, not enemies focused on killing you. Killing your enemies is just fine. If it takes a little torture to extract information from them, well............what the heck- don't take up arms against us if you are not keen about being tortured.
Despite going to church, I never discuss religion in public or in social settings- few Catholics do. I do not care what anyone else thinks and go to church as it provides me insight into my own life and makes me feel better. I suppose that others use drugs or drink for the very same reasons. Whatever floats thier boat is okay with me.
Ah, yes... That's what Jesus taught: death and torture - not forgiveness and love. :-)
Torture does not get valuable information to save lives. Studies have proven that. It doesn't save lives. It violates the Geneva Conventions, it violates the principles of our country. It's unethical, immoral, evil and wrong. Period.
I see torture as worse than death. The only purpose of torture is to cause maximum pain to another individual.
As for abortion, it's an entirely different subject. It is pure evil -- very selfish and wrong. However, I don't have a problem with opposing both abortion and torture. I don't see why I would need to support one and oppose the other. I see child abuse (a form of torture) as on equal footing as abortion.
Would you view feeding a child a happy meal as child abuse and on an equal footing to abortion? Some people view feeding children fast food to be child abuse..
Torture worse than death? I don't know about you bub, but I'd rather be deprived of sleep for 3 days and then subject to questioning than be killed.
A Pew Research Center for the People & the Press survey released last week found that those who attend weekly church services are more likely than those who rarely or never attend services to say the use of torture on suspected terrorists is justifiable
The poll also suggests that those who are religious are more likely to say the use of torture can be justified than those who are not religious.
and anyone posting on CD for awhile is not surprised.
Did you even read the poll you attached? The numbers also say that churchgoers are more likely than non-churchgoers to believe torture is never justified.
I think there is no moral comparison. I would think if someone tortured someone just for the enjoyment of it, then that's really bad. But what we're talking about is torturing someone to get information so that lives can be saved.
To compare torture to save lives, with other sorts of evil things, is foolish.
Then to compare it to abortion?
Torture to prevent a terrorist act, so save lives, you aren't even going to kill the person vs. killing your own offspring because you were irresponsible and a child would not be convenenient to you?
Abortion is vastly worse, and vastly more selfish. Torture is meant to get information to save lives. Abortion is about avoiding responsibility for a child that's not convenient to you...
Everything that is known & learned about torture proves that it does NOT get any viable answers or information & in fact, people will say whatever is wanted of them thus it can cause many 'wild goose chases' & wastes valuable time.
Sen. John McCain was tortured & he agrees that it does not work.
Would you not believe someone who has been through it?
Abortion is a completely different issue to be discussed & it has to do with
the ability to use force to control someones 'personal' choices. I don't think the two should be discussed together.
Most people do have "a problem" with abortion, on the left and on the right. You can easily tell the difference, though: the left is the side which is honest and faces facts regarding it: it's going to happen anyway, so might as well make it "safe, legal and rare."
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