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Yes. It's agreed. But there is a big difference in the needs and necessities of a baby inside the womb and outside the womb.
Outside of the womb, a newborn baby needs warmth, food (milk), and diaper changes... and of course a place to sleep. Anybody is capable of providing these things. From the mother to father to younger sibling to complete stranger, anyone can.
Inside of the womb, the originating woman's body is required to do these things - up to and including waste removal. There are currently no such things as "Rent-A-Wombs" where an unwanted 8-week old fetus/baby can be removed from a woman's body without killing it. There are no widespread "incubators" capable of taking care of a child for those 40 weeks until that child is capable of performing all bodily functions without assistance. Add to that the physical and mental strains/side effects of being pregnant; while mostly mild, these can be quite severe and can be deadly.
What do you do with a fetus that is unwanted by a woman unwilling or incapable of going through pregnancy? At the point that the child is present, there is no "SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE PILL". It's too late for that. There is already a life inside her.
Right now, the answer is abortion. Perhaps in a hundred years, Rent-A-Wombs will be available, but not today.
As for the original point of the topic: women tweeting about their abortion experience, I don't see a problem with it. It's women like these and stories like on imnotsorry.net - as well as sites like prolife.com that give women access to both sides of the abortion coin. While some women have no qualms making their decision (either way), for others, an unwanted pregnancy comes with one of the hardest decisions that they will ever have to make. I don't have a problem with support networks for women who chose abortion, just as I don't have a problem with support networks for women who chose adoption, just as I don't have a problem with support networks for women who chose to raise the child. They're all necessary.
Nothing wrong with tweeting it? You have to be kidding, of course it is wrong. As for the mom and yes, she is a mom, who for whatever reason decided not to use birth control and now doesn't want to be a mom, have you heard of adoption? Which is more selfish, destroying a human life or giving that human life to someone who will care for it and love it? As for mental stress of being pregnant, again, sometimes we make mistakes and have to pay for them.
Yes. It's agreed. But there is a big difference in the needs and necessities of a baby inside the womb and outside the womb.
Outside of the womb, a newborn baby needs warmth, food (milk), and diaper changes... and of course a place to sleep. Anybody is capable of providing these things. From the mother to father to younger sibling to complete stranger, anyone can.
Inside of the womb, the originating woman's body is required to do these things - up to and including waste removal. There are currently no such things as "Rent-A-Wombs" where an unwanted 8-week old fetus/baby can be removed from a woman's body without killing it. There are no widespread "incubators" capable of taking care of a child for those 40 weeks until that child is capable of performing all bodily functions without assistance. Add to that the physical and mental strains/side effects of being pregnant; while mostly mild, these can be quite severe and can be deadly.
What do you do with a fetus that is unwanted by a woman unwilling or incapable of going through pregnancy? At the point that the child is present, there is no "SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE PILL". It's too late for that. There is already a life inside her.
Right now, the answer is abortion. Perhaps in a hundred years, Rent-A-Wombs will be available, but not today.
As for the original point of the topic: women tweeting about their abortion experience, I don't see a problem with it. It's women like these and stories like on imnotsorry.net - as well as sites like prolife.com that give women access to both sides of the abortion coin. While some women have no qualms making their decision (either way), for others, an unwanted pregnancy comes with one of the hardest decisions that they will ever have to make. I don't have a problem with support networks for women who chose abortion, just as I don't have a problem with support networks for women who chose adoption, just as I don't have a problem with support networks for women who chose to raise the child. They're all necessary.
The original point is, is it OK to tweet about murder. If one thinks its OK then that is all tweeting about abortion is.
I hear the pro abortion side make so many straw man arguments.
First it my body my choice. This argument totally disregard the fact that it is more than one body its two lives. The pro abortions will say it nothing but a clump of cells. That clump of cells is a growing developing human with its own set of DNA separate from the mother. So its more than the the mothers body . So this claim is an egotistical nightmare that ignores the true facts.
I have had the horror to watch an abortion and see what it does to the baby. I have seen that the woman body can be affected for years by an abortion as well as her mental well being. Abortion Can do more harm to a woman than giving birth.
I have seen woman cry its none of the mans business. yet it took a man to make that baby, so do not tell me that bay i helped make is not my business it certainly is. I have seen what this kind of man hate and disregard for the legitimate concern of the man can do to the woman.
A woman who only cares about herself during an abortion will someday feel the pain of that egotistical choice.
Woman who go through counseling can also some day have bouts of depression, self loathing and blaming. Yet there might have been a father that wanted that child was ready to raise that child pay for the medical bills for that child and the mothers expense for counseling and he get to watch and know his child is being killed and there is nothing he can do.
This produces two types of reactions in woman , one they do not care about the man the child or the consequence of their actions. these woman usually end up with kids late which is sad since they had no concern for killing .
The second type of woman is so overcome with grief of what she did that she needs years of caring to get over it. Planned parent hood does not care what happens to these woman after they kill.
The next straw man argument is what would we do with all these unwanted babies, the answer is adoption and a is proved by numbers here they would be taken care of
The next straw man argument is we cant afford kids.Then go to an adoption agency like the one i deal with we will pay your medical bills and lifetime counseling we have waiting lists of parents waiting years for infants.
So abortion is also denying childish wanting parents babies but doe the pro abortions care anything about anyone but herself, no she hides behind it legal so its OK. Without a thought of the long term health and mental problems that can occur.
You either care about what you have done some day it it attacks you with greif or you are so cold blooded you will never care and will tell all how great abortions are because they were not ready or could not afford it, so they feel cold blood idly great about killing.
Someday in the future our future ancestors will wonder with fear how we could let this happen much as we wonder about how we allowed the holocaust , and slavery happen
The original point is, is it OK to tweet about murder. If one thinks its OK then that is all tweeting about abortion is.
Not really, since abortion is not murder.
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First it my body my choice. This argument totally disregard the fact that it is more than one body its two lives.
Which disregards the fact that one is barely a life, and cannot live on its own, and physically depends on the other to live.
And until we get artificial wombs, it will always be the person incubating having a stronger voice over the cells needing the incubation.
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The pro abortions will say it nothing but a clump of cells. That clump of cells is a growing developing human with its own set of DNA separate from the mother.
You're absolutely correct.
But we then get into the argument of whether or not said clump of cells holds more rights than a fully developed human.
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I have had the horror to watch an abortion and see what it does to the baby.
I sincerely doubt that. Especially since there's no babies involved in most abortions. Since outside of medical need, partial birth abortion is illegal and all.
And if you try to quote that "Silent Scream" video, it's fake. Don't quote it.
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I have seen that the woman body can be affected for years by an abortion as well as her mental well being. Abortion Can do more harm to a woman than giving birth.
As for the first claim, no, abortion does not do more harm than birth. Giving birth is much riskier than abortion.
Mental well being depends on the woman.
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I have seen woman cry its none of the mans business. yet it took a man to make that baby, so do not tell me that bay i helped make is not my business it certainly is.
Note: I am a man. And the only business I have in the abortion is weighing in my opinion. That's it. The decision is up to the woman and the woman herself, until the man can go through the 9 months of pregnancy and the horrible childbirth.
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A woman who only cares about herself during an abortion will someday feel the pain of that egotistical choice.
And you complain about strawmans.
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Woman who go through counseling can also some day have bouts of depression, self loathing and blaming.
Yet there might have been a father that wanted that child was ready to raise that child pay for the medical bills for that child and the mothers expense for counseling and he get to watch and know his child is being killed and there is nothing he can do.
That father cannot take the baby in himself and go through the 9 months of torture, therefore his say does not outweigh the mother's.
Sorry, that's just how it works. You can't force someone to go through that. It's inhuman.
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Planned parent hood does not care what happens to these woman after they kill.
Nor should they. They're the same as any other medical office. Make sure there's no complications with the procedure, and if there's not, have a nice day, see ya later, have some free birth control to help prevent this in the future.
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the answer is adoption and a is proved by numbers here they would be taken care of
Provide said numbers.
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The next straw man argument is we cant afford kids.Then go to an adoption agency like the one i deal with we will pay your medical bills and lifetime counseling we have waiting lists of parents waiting years for infants.
Still involves the woman going through a pregnancy for an unwanted child. Adoption's not that easy of a choice.
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Without a thought of the long term health and mental problems that can occur.
Which are minimal compared to actually giving birth.
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You either care about what you have done some day it it attacks you with greif or you are so cold blooded you will never care and will tell all how great abortions are because they were not ready or could not afford it, so they feel cold blood idly great about killing.
Hey look, more strawmans!
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Someday in the future our future ancestors will wonder with fear how we could let this happen much as we wonder about how we allowed the holocaust , and slavery happen
Or it'll still be legal, and going on, and easier to use. Hopefully paid for by the government.
Until there's artificial wombs, there will always be a need for abortion.
Last edited by twinArmageddons; 12-07-2010 at 11:02 AM..
How? What exactly is wrong with tweeting the abortion? It's the same as tweeting any other medical procedure in my mind.
Doesn't solve unwanted pregnancy, only unwanted parenting.
Both are equally as selfish.
Carrying a baby and giving it up for adoption is selfish? Can you tell me why you feel that way?
As for tweeting abortion and or other medical procedures that is a matter of opinion. I think it is imappropriate, you think it is ok. We will have to disagree on this.
No adoption does not solve the problem of an unwanted pregnancy but it is certainly a better solution than taking a baby's life.
Carrying a baby and giving it up for adoption is selfish? Can you tell me why you feel that way?
It's selfish for the person making the woman go through an unwanted pregnancy to go through the hell of childbirth and then snatch the child away from them.
If it's wanted, then it's fine.
If the woman never wanted to be pregnant in the first place, it's selfish.
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As for tweeting abortion and or other medical procedures that is a matter of opinion. I think it is imappropriate, you think it is ok. We will have to disagree on this.
Not really, since abortion is not murder.
Denying life is murder if i deny you yoru life it is murder
Which disregards the fact that one is barely a life, and cannot live on its own, and physically depends on the other to live.
the argument was its my body my choice, it is more than your body, barely life is life
And until we get artificial wombs, it will always be the person incubating having a stronger voice over the cells needing the incubation.
The baby has no voice , their voice is the pro life movement
You're absolutely correct.
But we then get into the argument of whether or not said clump of cells holds more rights than a fully developed human.
That clump of cells is the same as you, growing changing developing you are also nothing but a clump of cells
I sincerely doubt that. Especially since there's no babies involved in most abortions. Since outside of medical need, partial birth abortion is illegal and all.
there is ababy involved in every abortion
And if you try to quote that "Silent Scream" video, it's fake. Don't quote it.
I do not quote anything I have been in a room on partial birth abortion i never have heard of silent screen so i did not quote it so do not be accusing
As for the first claim, no, abortion does not do more harm than birth. Giving birth is much riskier than abortion.
the claim was abortion can do more harm than birth and yes it can
Mental well being depends on the woman. My wife has had 2 abortions. And she's mighty fine, mentally.
You do not knwo what happens in the future and Abortion does effect woman mentalkly
Note: I am a man. And the only business I have in the abortion is weighing in my opinion. That's it. The decision is up to the woman and the woman herself, until the man can go through the 9 months of pregnancy and the horrible childbirth.
[quote Yet there might have been a father that wanted that child was ready to raise that child pay for the medical bills for that child and the mothers expense for counseling and he get to watch and know his child is being killed and there is nothing he can do.
That father cannot take the baby in himself and go through the 9 months of torture, therefore his say does not outweigh the mother's.
Sorry, that's just how it works. You can't force someone to go through that. It's inhuman.
Nor should they. They're the same as any other medical office. Make sure there's no complications with the procedure, and if there's not, have a nice day, see ya later, have some free birth control to help prevent this in the future.
Provide said numbers.
I have done so in thsi thread
Still involves the woman going through a pregnancy for an unwanted child. Adoption's not that easy of a choice.
Abortion is not that easy of a choice
Which are minimal compared to actually giving birth.
Hey look, more strawmans!
Or it'll still be legal, and going on, and easier to use. Hopefully paid for by the government.
Until there's artificial wombs, there will always be a need for abortion.[/quote]
Our future selves will see this for what it is. I am glad to be standing on the side of life
Nothing wrong with tweeting it? You have to be kidding, of course it is wrong.
How is it any worse than talking to others about it in person? Or going to counseling or group therapy after the fact? You are way too judgmental and that is not an attractive trait on anyone. It is their experience to go through, they have every right to discuss it, tweet about it, get it of their chest, or whatever.
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As for the mom and yes, she is a mom, who for whatever reason decided not to use birth control and now doesn't want to be a mom,have you heard of adoption?
She is NOT a mother just because she got pregnant once upon a time.
A mother is someone who wipes your nose and changed your diapers and comforts you when you are sick.
Ask ANY adopted kid who their mom is, and they will not state it is the women who gave birth to them, but it is the woman who RAISED and LOVED them. The other 2 people are sperm donor and egg donor/incubator.
I would think since you are so Pro-Adoption you would at least know how adopted children feel about the situation. Birth mothers, while a nice thing they did, are not even in the realm of Mother to most adopted children. The term mother only occurs once the person GAVE BIRTH.
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Which is more selfish, destroying a human life or giving that human life to someone who will care for it and love it? As for mental stress of being pregnant, again, sometimes we make mistakes and have to pay for them.
Nita
Just because an adopted family looks nice on the outside, it is just like any other family, there may be dark issues hiding. There is NO assurance that the family who adopts your child will end up being a good one, EVEN if you pick it out yourself. People change, people hide who they really are. It is a crap shoot. Some are not willing to give up that control.
Yes, over all it is more selfish to have an abortion, so what? That is a pretty good reason these women are NOT ready to have children. They are selfish and parents CAN NOT BE SELFISH.
In a perfect world, all pregnant women would be in happy loving relationships with men who do not dump them when they get pregnant nor would they deny paternity. They would not hide wages to help support the child, and would actually WANT to have visitation.
In a perfect world, employers would not treat mothers differently in the professional world like the currently do, making many women feel they have to choose to have a baby, or fall many steps down that ladder.
In a perfect world, the US would have a year maternity w/disability payments so that women could BOND with their baby and not lose their jobs.
In a perfect world women would have more support from the community so that women who felt they were not ready to become mothers, could take classes for free, have instruction and support for many years after the birth.
In a perfect world there would not be some religious stigma regarding single women having babies which there still is. We would be more like Iceland.
In a perfect world, the US would have free daycare so single mothers can go to work and not pay most of their paycheck to daycare.
There are many reasons women choose not to have a child.
Denying life is murder if i deny you yoru life it is murder
If the definition of murder was that broad, we'd all be murderers.
Fortunately, it's rather specific.
And abortion doesn't fall under that definition.
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Originally Posted by wjtwet
I do not quote anything I have been in a room on partial birth abortion i never have heard of silent screen so i did not quote it so do not be accusing
Did you not see where I said "Partial-birth abortion is illegal, and only used in medically necessary situations"?
That means that partial birth abortion is no longer a part of the abortion argument.
So stop using it.
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the claim was abortion can do more harm than birth and yes it can
Well, that would be easy to prove, now would it?
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You do not knwo what happens in the future and Abortion does effect woman mentalkly
Please, point out anywhere that I said that it doesn't affect women mentally.
Some are better at handling it than others.
Giving birth also affects women negatively. Should we outlaw that?
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So you get yoru opinion whne most men do not
Strawman~. If you'd actually have read what I said, you'd see that what I'm saying is that men can weigh their opinion, but that's the extent of their say in abortion.
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Abortion is not that easy of a choice
Never said it was.
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Our future selves will see this for what it is. I am glad to be standing on the side of life
This produces two types of reactions in woman , one they do not care about the man the child or the consequence of their actions. these woman usually end up with kids late which is sad since they had no concern for killing .
Your posts have absolutely no basis and you seem to be up in the clouds with your arguments and statements. Are you even 18 yrs old? Because you don't seem to have any knowledge of what you talk about.
WHERE did you see an abortion performed LIVE?
You keep insisting men want babies. You are obviously not having sex with REAL men, maybe fantasy men wants babies in your dreams, but not in reality. Some real men are dogs. They just are, you cannot get around that. Some men are stand up guys, and some are not. Some are fabulous and want children, so they should marry a woman and have many children.
When I was 19 I was dating a guy who was 35 and had a vasectomy, & did not want babies. Surprise, I got pregnant after 2 years of dating. We broke up 3 weeks before I knew I was pregnant. He already had a new girlfriend. When I told him I was pregnant he told me he didn't want a kid. When I told him I was undecided, he threatened me and told me that if I had it, him and the new girlfriend would get married and take me to court for custody and WIN because they had a "normal" family unit and I did not. If he did not win custody he told me he would move out of the country so I could not get any child support from him. He pulled out ALL the tricks. I consulted a lawyer and was told that he very well could win custody, the court likes a mom and dad in the mix, and also because of my working with musicians on touring schedules, that it would look unfavorably on me as custodial parent because of the lifestyle and my career choice.
I decided that I could not stand to go through a court battle with someone who threatened to take custody away just to push me into an abortion. But if I did not have an abortion, then this man who hates children would end up with the child and that would be even worse. He would have been those men in the news who end up killing their 3 yr old child. They are EVERYWHERE right now. I would have been as guilty for bringing this child into a situation I knew was potentially harmful.
So I did what I had to because of the situation I was in. It was not pretty, but the alternative was not pretty either.
And THAT my friend is REAL LIFE and how it works. I don't regret it because I think I actually saved that baby from a life of pain and sorrow.
Last edited by Taboo2; 12-07-2010 at 11:54 AM..
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