What exactly is your objection to the war in Iraq? (Colin Powell, Congress)

[rd2007]

I'll have to discuss that with my dad. He's been in the banking biz for over 40 years and is currently president and CEO of a bank he started himself. Not to mention former president of the ABA and good friends with Martha Seeger (Fed Governor appointed by Reagan in 1980 and former neighbor of my grandma)..

I believe China is profiting much more from our debt..

[Ohiogirl81]

My objection is that we invaded a sovereign nation and deposed and ultimately killed its leader (and then had the nerve to act surprised when the natives fought back).

If we're supposed to be such a beacon of democracy, what the hell kind of message is that?

[rd2007]

it was more even more evidence that civilians can't fight a war.. war is dirty, let the people who know that fight it..

[Rhett_Butler]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

My objection is that we invaded a sovereign nation and deposed and ultimately killed its leader (and then had the nerve to act surprised when the natives fought back).

If we're supposed to be such a beacon of democracy, what the hell kind of message is that?

Well, the hilarity of it all is that the majority of Iraqis were thrilled with the parts you mentioned and then when the majority wished to take control of thier country (which somehow we apparrently didn't realize that Shiites were a VAST majority in Iraq and would take control EVEN IN A DEMOCRACY) and probably get in bed with Iran.

We freed Iraq up for self-determination and I'm beginning to think it's a good time to step aside and let that self-determination take place by stationing our troops on the borders of Iran and Syria and letting Iraqis fight it out.

[rd2007]

yep, we can set up some observation posts and impersonate the blue helmets (UN troops)

[macmeal]

(1) Some men like their women "trashy". You may not understand, nor do I. Don't these guys realize they're asking for trouble and heartbreak? Perhaps they enjoy the "adventure" of it all- I don't know; you'd have to ask them their reasons....I only know such men do exist.

(2) Some women like their men "rough". Not nice, not sensitive, not caring, but strong, macho and mean. Why? Oh, I don't know- maybe it makes them feel protected...maybe they get some sort of naughty "thrill"- you'd have to ask them their reasons...I only know such women do exist.

(3) Some cultures like their leaders tough, nasty, and ruthless. Not diplomatic, not eloquent, not sophisticated, but cruel, mean, and fearsome. Why? Perhaps for the sense of protection against other groups. Perhaps that's simply the local cultural ideal of "manliness"-I don't know, you'd have to ask them.....but I do know that millions of such people do exist.

CONCLUSION: You will NEVER, EVER, try as you might, FORCE someone to accept democracy. People who want democracy (like people who like ballet dancing or hang gliding) will come to adopt democracy when they, in their own time, become sick and tired of its alternatives. Trying to INSIST that they accept democracy makes no more sense than INSISTING that a kid try broccoli. It will be accepted and embraced only at such time as the locals want it.
NOTICE, too that we don't seem to waste two words on convincing the Muslim world to adopt Women's Rights. Why is this? Probably because we somehow realize that Islam will adopt Women's Rights at such time as the women of Islam decide they're tired of their present role, and start demanding changes. Until that happens, no army can make them do it....

[darstar]

Originally Posted by macmeal

(1) Some men like their women "trashy". You may not understand, nor do I. Don't these guys realize they're asking for trouble and heartbreak? Perhaps they enjoy the "adventure" of it all- I don't know; you'd have to ask them their reasons....I only know such men do exist.

(2) Some women like their men "rough". Not nice, not sensitive, not caring, but strong, macho and mean. Why? Oh, I don't know- maybe it makes them feel protected...maybe they get some sort of naughty "thrill"- you'd have to ask them their reasons...I only know such women do exist.

(3) Some cultures like their leaders tough, nasty, and ruthless. Not diplomatic, not eloquent, not sophisticated, but cruel, mean, and fearsome. Why? Perhaps for the sense of protection against other groups. Perhaps that's simply the local cultural ideal of "manliness"-I don't know, you'd have to ask them.....but I do know that millions of such people do exist.

CONCLUSION: You will NEVER, EVER, try as you might, FORCE someone to accept democracy. People who want democracy (like people who like ballet dancing or hang gliding) will come to adopt democracy when they, in their own time, become sick and tired of its alternatives. Trying to INSIST that they accept democracy makes no more sense than INSISTING that a kid try broccoli. It will be accepted and embraced only at such time as the locals want it.
NOTICE, too that we don't seem to waste two words on convincing the Muslim world to adopt Women's Rights. Why is this? Probably because we somehow realize that Islam will adopt Women's Rights at such time as the women of Islam decide they're tired of their present role, and start demanding changes. Until that happens, no army can make them do it....

All this sounds a lot like the Good old USA...these days. There are very few true democracy's. The US is not one of them , we are a republic. The neo-Cons had a plan, to rule the world , they still do. It has nothing to do with a democracy , or womens rights, or whatever...its all about power , and money.

[Njrover0216]

I am for the war, however, I am against how it is being handled. We are tip toeing around this person and that person because we do not want to get anyone mad. I think that we first should have settle things in Afagahnistan before rushing into Iraq.
The Iraqi war is a difficult war to fight because the enemy are a bunch of cowards that hide behind everyday normal citizens. There is not a line that says it is blue against red. The people of Iraq are afraid to point out who the insurgents are in fear for their lives. Now we are stuck, if we pull out then we are going to be blamed for Iraqs past and future, if we stay it is going to keep going round and round. I think that we should hold an election for the Iraqi people, does America stay or go? That way the decision is put into their hands.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by Njrover0216

I am for the war, however, I am against how it is being handled. We are tip toeing around this person and that person because we do not want to get anyone mad. I think that we first should have settle things in Afagahnistan before rushing into Iraq.
The Iraqi war is a difficult war to fight because the enemy are a bunch of cowards that hide behind everyday normal citizens. There is not a line that says it is blue against red. The people of Iraq are afraid to point out who the insurgents are in fear for their lives. Now we are stuck, if we pull out then we are going to be blamed for Iraqs past and future, if we stay it is going to keep going round and round. I think that we should hold an election for the Iraqi people, does America stay or go? That way the decision is put into their hands.

Sorry , I hate it when they don't play fair , don't you ? Who do they think they are anyway ! Sure , an election is a good idea.....first place to start is right here in the US , maybe an impeachment or two also, don't you think ?

[rd2007]

Originally Posted by darstar

All this sounds a lot like the Good old USA...these days. There are very few true democracy's. The US is not one of them , we are a republic. The neo-Cons had a plan, to rule the world , they still do. It has nothing to do with a democracy , or womens rights, or whatever...its all about power , and money.

definition, again....

Originally Posted by Njrover0216

I am for the war, however, I am against how it is being handled. We are tip toeing around this person and that person because we do not want to get anyone mad. I think that we first should have settle things in Afagahnistan before rushing into Iraq.
The Iraqi war is a difficult war to fight because the enemy are a bunch of cowards that hide behind everyday normal citizens. There is not a line that says it is blue against red. The people of Iraq are afraid to point out who the insurgents are in fear for their lives. Now we are stuck, if we pull out then we are going to be blamed for Iraqs past and future, if we stay it is going to keep going round and round. I think that we should hold an election for the Iraqi people, does America stay or go? That way the decision is put into their hands.

bingo and bingo, thank you for paying attention

Originally Posted by darstar

Sorry , I hate it when they don't play fair , don't you ? Who do they think they are anyway ! Sure , an election is a good idea.....first place to start is right here in the US , maybe an impeachment or two also, don't you think ?

oof, the reason I gave up my Michigan citizenship while I was in the military..
sad thing is I still want to move back there, but I know I'd be in a fight every day in my home town of Ann Arbor...