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Old 11-16-2010, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,783,759 times
Reputation: 24863

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Why should any employer provide health insurance? People should buy health insurance if they want it. Otherwise they can pay for health care directly from their current income or savings. Health care is an individual or possibly a family matter it should be the individual’s responsibility to pay for either care or insurance with their own money. This is the Right Wing Republican position after you strip away all the verbiage.

The extreme alternative is a government sponsored health care industry wherein all the facilities are owned by the government and all the employees work for the government. The patients are only required to pay a token fee to discourage over use of the system. The rest of the cost is financed through the government general fund and paid for by whatever tax system the society chose’s. This is the Leftist position (not the Democratic Party BTW) preferred system.

There are problems with both. The first will not function if the people unable to pay for health care have it provided. This is the “Live expensively or actually DIE” system. The primary problem with the leftist system is the government will become too stingy to keep facilities upgraded or pay scales high enough to attract qualified personnel.

I do not believe either extreme will actually work. The rightist system requires too much after tax income to be removed from the market to support a consumer economy and is too harsh (pay or no care) for many people. This also puts too much of the saved money at risk in a financial collapse where the diligent savers lose their medical care savings and become excluded from the system. Consider how well the private pension savings did during the recent near collapse. I think a combined system wherein the people pay a special tax, similar to Social Security, to pay for current expenses for the entire society. This would require price controls to keep the private sector involvement from looting the system as our current Military Contractors are doing.

I do not think the current Obama Care system that requires everyone to purchase private sector insurance is either a good idea or very workable. This system, created by bribing congress, is an invitation to looting the nation for insurance company profits and major medical investor’s endless dividends. There is no way to discipline the care providers in the current Law.
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:56 AM
 
2,564 posts, read 1,596,343 times
Reputation: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Ha, ha, ha.... Huffington(puffington) Post!!!! Are you serious? Soros funds this rag! Why would you beleive anything coming from there?
Yes, I believe it (apparently Native American website does too), but only because they provide court documentation:

http://images.eonline.com/static/new...rlSubpoena.pdf
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:57 AM
 
Location: west central Georgia
2,240 posts, read 1,386,349 times
Reputation: 906
What are the options available if you don't pay the SS tax? I really want to know. How do you opt out of SS?
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Old 11-16-2010, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,530,289 times
Reputation: 7807
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
They do look it up CBO scored too

Ok, I did look it up and what I found wasn't a separate plan, but an amendment they offered up to the Democrats bill in 2009:

http://rules-republicans.house.gov/M...tive3962_9.pdf

I did a quick scan of it's 219 pages and found some things I like and some things I didn't.

It seems to be little different from Democrats plan, with a few caveats.

One of the key differences is that it shifts most of the administrative burdens from the federal government to the states, which in theory is a good idea but, which in fact might easily lead to wide variations among the states.

Secondly, while it does not directly tax the health care consumer, it does tax their insurance group, all of which will naturally be passed on to the purchaser. It's basically a shell game to hide the tax the Demo's proposed, but still collect it.

Next, the plan does not mandate dependent coverage. But, if a plan does offer it, it must continue in force until at least age 25.

Under this plan, health insurance providers may charge up to 50% more for premiums if a majority of the plans customers do not participate in a defined wellness program.

It includes the stupendous sum of $900 million of your tax money, over a 9 year period, to root out Medicare and Medicaid fraud and abuse. I personally find it hard to believe that would be a good use of our money, but that's just me. You may disagree.

It also provides that no tax dollars will be spent on abortions, except in cases of rape, incest and where the health of the mother may be in danger.

It, indeed, does have a tort reform section which is pretty much what we have here in Texas now. Punitive damages may not exceed $250,000 or twice the awarded judgment, whichever is greater. Additionally, a claim for punitive damages cannot be made as a part of the original suit and a subsequent claim must be approved by the trying judge. I don't think I like that part of it because it just about guarantees the attempted purchasing of the judges decision.

The longest section of this bill is in relation to the marketing of so-called bio-similar products. Given the GOP's long association with big business, that's not a surprise. Worse, in order to interpret the section, one must have access to numerous government rules and regulations to decipher the word changes the section includes and understand what they're trying to do.

Overall, my chief complaints are that it does nothing to restrain costs (any more than does the Democrats plan); does not include any kind of mandate to ensure everyone gets insurance (neither does the Democrats plan). It only makes it available, which does nothing to help those who can't afford it now. Unlike the Demo's plan, though, it doesn't penalize those with no coverage. Also, this plan claims it won't raise taxes and that it won't add to the deficit without really explaining how that's so.

Final analysis: It's a good starting point for the debate, but still does not address the underlying issues which began this discussion in the first place: People without insurance and rising health care costs.

Frankly, I'm no more impressed with this than I am the Democrat's version.
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,642 posts, read 26,378,527 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by txgolfer130 View Post
LOL. I guess this is just a clear example of the hypocrisy and pure and simple about face double talk Republican's can expect, (I mean they lied for 8 years-what did we expect to change) of the double dealing, talking out of both sides of their mouth scum that the Tea Party and kool-aid drinking Republican's have thrust back upon our great country.


Bottom's up, ladies & gents:

GOP frosh: Where's my health care? - Glenn Thrush - POLITICO.com



And wait it get's better:




[/color][/LEFT]

[/color][/LEFT]

[/color][/LEFT]



That government being the employer thing a little confusing?
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
25,826 posts, read 20,703,250 times
Reputation: 14818
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
I guess the congressman could answer, get a job with benefits like he did.
His issue isn't with the benefits - his issue is with the waiting period, a whole 28 days. What I guess he doesn't, or didn't, realize is that millions of people with employer-sponsored health care wait anywhere from 3 - 6 months, and sometimes waited longer when pre-existing conditions were considered, for their benefits to start.

It is amazing to me how someone can whine about waiting 28 days at the same time vociferously denying any type of coverage to millions of people.
How about doing some due diligence to see how his constituents live?
How about showing a little sensitivity to those who cannot find work, let alone find work with benefits?


He's eligible for COBRA - surely he can afford to cover the gap just like all of those unemployed people were expected to do.
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:50 AM
 
2,564 posts, read 1,596,343 times
Reputation: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
You are against the IHS??!!
Nope, not me. Sarah Palin is the one against federally subsidized healthcare insurance.
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
25,826 posts, read 20,703,250 times
Reputation: 14818
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Ha, ha, ha.... Huffington(puffington) Post!!!! Are you serious? Soros funds this rag! Why would you beleive anything coming from there?
HuffPo is a news aggregator, no different than any other news source. Do you honestly believe that your preferred sources are all primary?
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:44 AM
 
277 posts, read 228,805 times
Reputation: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by aspiesmom View Post
Palin's grandson DOES use these services, according to court documents.

http://images.eonline.com/static/new...rlSubpoena.pdf
"Because the majority of Tripp's health care costs are already covered by the IHS and the Alaska Native Medical Center, Mr. Johnston has no need to purchase additional health insurance and this deduction should not be allowed," the attorneys said in a court filing.

I have absolutely nothing against nationalized health insurance (such as Medicare, Medicaid, potential Universal Health Insurance for ALL HR676) like the rest of the democracies of the world , Sarah Palin does.
are you a taxpayer

then you could never afford a UHC
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:51 AM
 
2,564 posts, read 1,596,343 times
Reputation: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired Marine 1967 View Post
are you a taxpayer

then you could never afford a UHC
Yes, I am a taxpayer (including Medicare Tax too) AND I pay a higher monthly premium for corporate healthcare as well (and the corporate has all kinds of pits and valleys that I fall into as well- copays, coinsurances, deductibles, etc.) Corporate insurance always finds a way to make the patient pay more for what we already pay for, because of corporate profit margins

Let's get rid of this middleman scam, then everyone could afford UHC! ANYTHING (that's right, ANYTHING) is cheaper without a middleman racket, ask the ladies on the busses to the factory outlet malls.
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