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View Poll Results: Should gay TSA agents be allowed to give same-gender pat-downs?
Yes, they should be allowed 49 45.79%
No, they should not 55 51.40%
Not sure 3 2.80%
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-14-2010, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,329,907 times
Reputation: 27718

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Well when I have flown in the past it was always with SouthWest.
I sent them an email and told them I'd no longer be flying thanks to the DHS and TSA.
I will not subject myself to a virtual naked scan nor be groped by strangers.
I told them I'd drive or take the train rather than be humiliated like that in the airport.
I ended with "It was nice doing business with you."

Maybe if enough complain to the airlines.
There is a line and the government stepped over it.

When will YOU complain..when they start doing cavity searches with rubber gloves on ?
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,209,589 times
Reputation: 16939
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartestManInTheRoom View Post
Don't fly if you don't want your junk touched. It's not all that complicated.
I keep seeing this and want to ask a question. Why should anyone be forced to have this act done to them? This particular situations proves that the mentality of the tsa agents is exactly not the one you want. Their behavior shows that they enjoy imposing misery on others. They are exactly the people who should never work in that sort of job but who else wants to do it but control freaks and those who enjoy seeing others humiliation?

Is this what we want to be about? Remember that, as pointed out, all sorts of workers come in the gate without any screening of any kind daily. Why subject passangers who have to pay for the privilidge to be humiliated and groped? Why not have the machine and line right by the door. Every single employee or visitor waiting for a friend or having to go upstairs to catch the commuter bus has to undergo it each time the come in the door? What about just doing a roadblock and making it simple?

This is insanity. I'll be the terrorists are laughing and cheering as we descend into a police state just like they want us to so we can be like them.
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:02 PM
 
14,249 posts, read 17,887,181 times
Reputation: 13807
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
I keep seeing this and want to ask a question. Why should anyone be forced to have this act done to them? This particular situations proves that the mentality of the tsa agents is exactly not the one you want. Their behavior shows that they enjoy imposing misery on others. They are exactly the people who should never work in that sort of job but who else wants to do it but control freaks and those who enjoy seeing others humiliation?

Is this what we want to be about? Remember that, as pointed out, all sorts of workers come in the gate without any screening of any kind daily. Why subject passangers who have to pay for the privilidge to be humiliated and groped? Why not have the machine and line right by the door. Every single employee or visitor waiting for a friend or having to go upstairs to catch the commuter bus has to undergo it each time the come in the door? What about just doing a roadblock and making it simple?

This is insanity. I'll be the terrorists are laughing and cheering as we descend into a police state just like they want us to so we can be like them.
I don't think it is fair to single out the TSA agents in this. In my experience the vast majority of them are decent people trying to do a job as best they can. This is an instruction they have received from their management, not something that individual agents on the security line have dreamed up. Going after the agents is like shooting the messenger. If you want to do something about the TSA then you need to go after the people running it.
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:12 PM
 
9,408 posts, read 11,907,447 times
Reputation: 12439
One woman's experience with the 'enhanced pat down':

Our Little Chatterboxes: TSA - Sexual Assault

Quote:
She felt along my waistline, moved behind me, then proceeded to feel both of my buttocks. She reached from behind in the middle of my buttocks towards my vagina area. She did not tell me that she was going to touch my buttocks, or reach forward to my vagina area.
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:34 PM
 
9,408 posts, read 11,907,447 times
Reputation: 12439
The only thing that will reign this nonsense in is money, or more specifically, airlines' lack of it. And to achieve that requires people to fully commit to not fly under these rules. As long as people submit to the gov't assaults, it will continue. However, crippling the airlines and travel industry would put pressure on DHS to come around.

Unless we commit to no longer flying, we are complicit in assuring it will continue.
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,209,589 times
Reputation: 16939
Interesting comments too. I think we'll see even more of these kinds of blogs over the holiday season. I hope this wakes up a few people who in their complacency don't check ahead. It would be interesting to see how many people decide not to fly. This coming year when I take the train again to California I will be getting tickets early lest they be sold out.

But the comments from survivers of rape or sexual assualt should be listened to. This IS a violation. This screener needs to be fired. Before a ticket is sold a detailed document needs to be given and read to make sure those unawares don't arrive and be surprised. Imagine if the person being "patted down" was a child who had been molested or an adult who had been assulted and they didn't know what was to be done. And since once you arrive you are oblidged to go through with it it is even worse. I would not be surprised if those who don't follow the news find out when they get to the airport this holiday season and somewhere, someone is going to really lose it and someone gets hurt. If other countries manage to do security without assulting the passangers maybe we should be looking at what they do other than this.

Cudos for the blogger for her blog and the publicity.
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Old 11-15-2010, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,209,589 times
Reputation: 16939
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
I don't think it is fair to single out the TSA agents in this. In my experience the vast majority of them are decent people trying to do a job as best they can. This is an instruction they have received from their management, not something that individual agents on the security line have dreamed up. Going after the agents is like shooting the messenger. If you want to do something about the TSA then you need to go after the people running it.
I wasn't singling out the tsa inspectors, but pointing out that the job will draw the people who like to be in control and will not be bothered by doing a personal assualt on someone. Sure its the rules they are given, but this has been moving this way for some time. And I believe an employee has the responsibility to say that this is improper. They said I have to is not an excuse.

Yes, the policy setters nood to be included in the defination of the problem. It creeps slowly and eventually it reaches the point of being too much, but if in fear mode it is not so clear. We need to go from that and the knee jerk solutions to using our intelligence an seeking effective methods which stay within bounds. As pointed out elsewhere, other countries manage to have security without assualtng the paying public.

Ultimately the airlines lose or gain in this. How many people are going to think long and hard before buying plane tickets, especially with kids? Writing your favorite airline and stating you won't be flying will matter. Letters (over emails) are filed and kept. You can bet a backlash against flying will move the companies to take more responsibility.
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Old 11-15-2010, 12:35 AM
 
Location: In Transition
1,637 posts, read 1,906,211 times
Reputation: 931
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea3821 View Post
Those freedoms you enjoy in this "pitiful country" are being taken away by Muslim extremists (or at least they're trying). To keep our airways safe, I have no problem submitting my own self to a full body scanner or a pat-down if everyone else has to do it, too, i.e., the would-be terrorists. This should not be a problem unless you're hiding something. While I do have a big problem with the gov't infringing upon personal rights and intruding into our lives, this is one thing I am willing to sacrifice for the sake of keeping Americans safe.

If you don't like living in a "pitiful country," you're free to leave.
Janet Napolitano, is that you? Here's some clues for you

a) getting groped is not going to make air travel safer. We can talk much about different vectors for attack all you want.
b) being violated IS pretty much a fundamental "line in the sand" that shouldn't be crossed, I don't give a **** how much it makes things better
c) Why do I have to be presumed guilty and have to prove my innocence when I'm heading for a gate?

See why this particular problem is an issue now? Your welcome.
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Old 11-15-2010, 12:42 AM
 
25,024 posts, read 27,874,201 times
Reputation: 11790
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohKnip View Post
This could be why they are doing these searches now. To prevent something like this from happening again. If they just do a regular pat down without going into the groin area future terrorist will realize this and take advantage of it in the future like this event that happened in the past.

Northwest Airlines Flight 253 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

People need to get over themselves.

Also I will wait until this is reported more to find out exactly why he is being prosecuted now. That wasn't clear and if he is being prosecuted solely because he didn't choose to be patted down I don't agree with or support that.
Let's assume I am an FBI agent. Before you go to work everyday, I'm going to strip search you and check your car inside and out for any contraband you are hiding. Just to make sure you're not smuggling anything or planning to kill people today. Would you be ok with this? By the way I will be doing this every day you go out of your house. You know just to make sure everyone in the neighborhood is safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton360 View Post
I read about this earlier today.
I won't travel by air to anywhere that has a landing point in the United States. They can shove the X-ray machines you-know-where as far as I'm concerned.
It seems like everyone who enters an airport these days is considered guilty until proven innocent.
They installed the scanners in Toronto, Vancouver, and Regina. They are coming to Canada as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartestManInTheRoom View Post
Don't fly if you don't want your junk touched. It's not all that complicated.
Yeah what about some of us that have family in places that you have to cross the ocean to get them? You expect me and people in my position, to forever give up flying to Puerto Rico for family holidays and such? What about people with family in Europe? What are they supposed to do? People that have families in India and China?
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Old 11-15-2010, 01:48 AM
 
14,944 posts, read 8,558,182 times
Reputation: 7361
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thHour View Post
The only thing that will reign this nonsense in is money, or more specifically, airlines' lack of it. And to achieve that requires people to fully commit to not fly under these rules. As long as people submit to the gov't assaults, it will continue. However, crippling the airlines and travel industry would put pressure on DHS to come around.

Unless we commit to no longer flying, we are complicit in assuring it will continue.
I understand where you are coming from ... but that's not the answer either. Just recently Airline and Tourist industry representatives met with Janet Napolitano over that exact issue ... they were told that the naked body scanner and invasive pat downs would continue and likely expand. (She basically told them to take a hike.)

In the current economic climate, damaging the airline and tourist industry by refusing to fly is cutting one's nose of to spite their face.

What needs to happen is that EVERYONE needs to refuse to comply with the scanners, and NOT SUBMIT to these molestations. File criminal charges against anyone sexually assaulting you under this fraud of "enhanced" pat downs. TSA workers and their supervisors are responsible for their own behavior, like anyone else. They are also subject to the same laws as everyone else ... in spite of any claims to the contrary. There can be no LEGITIMATE law that allows someone, regardless of title or claim of authority to sexually molest you REGARDLESS of their reason for doing it.

Demand the local police arrest these scumbags, and let the courts sort them out. If the police refuse, sue them too. File civil suits and name everyone in their TSA chain of command ... make THEM pay for their misbehavior, rather than hurt ourselves by refusing to fly, which does nothing to them.

But it's going to take a collective effort .... one person here and there can't stop this ... but collectively, the common folks can. If only a third of the people refused to go along with this disgraceful nonsense, the rest would follow, and these goons would be stopped in their tracks.
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