Are there more gay people now than there were in the past? (suspect, death)

[GeorgeLucasLongLostChin]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

I love how homophobes always focus on gay men, while ignoring lesbians. It just goes to show the real fear is the fear of anything perceived to be feminine. To the subconscious of a homophobe, men who want to be with men are renouncing their masculinity...the ultimate "sin" or "crime" in their minds...The homophobe is afraid of women/the feminine, and thus, feels the need to make women/the feminine inferior to keep the (perceived) threat in check.

I agree and let's be honest, homophobes are frequently proving to be closeted homosexuals. I used to think this was a BS argument from the side of homosexuals, but as I got older, I've witnessed more and more homophobes turning gay. I think the multiple gay sex scandals in the biggest opponent of homosexuality in the USA assert to that.

[43north87west]

Originally Posted by iPwn

I have a theory (Im sure im not the first to think of it) that because the human population is large enough that we don't really need everyone reproducing to keep us going, more and more people are becoming gay.

The reason I think this is because homosexuality really DOES seem more common today. I'm sure some of it is because more people are out of the closet now, but I also think there's just a larger percentage of gay people now.

For example girls in my generation (Generation Y, teens and 20s people) seem to be bi-sexual almost as often as they are strictly straight, and even the men in my generation are beginning to have bisexuality tendencies in very large numbers.

I think the reason why we're seeing more and more acceptance of gay rights is because of the increase in gay people, which means more people know and love a gay person, and thus more people support gay rights (which is awesome!)

My radical theory is Gay Rights is not succeeding because people are nicer and more tolerant of others today than they were in the past, but literally because there's more gay people so there's more of a push by gay people and their loved ones for gay rights.

It's less covert than in years past. That would explain the gay rights theory. Instead of being closeted, a lot of people are out. They aren't likely to be higher in numbers, although there may be a handful of people who are on the fence about their sexuality and just don't know either way (although almost everyone settles into one or the other eventually).

The premise of people picking a sexuality, which I saw discussed in this thread, is unlikely. I don't know a single straight person who admits to considering same sex relations, and no gay people who consider having opposite sex relations. If a choice is involved, that choice is whether to act on existing desires, or just to shove them into the closet and go on with what appears to be a normal life.

[Clark Park]

Last June I was in South Florida to visit my oldest brother, who lives in Miami. During my stay I inspected a fantastic resource and research center in nearby Fort Lauderdale:

The Stonewall Library, Museum, and Archives
East Sunrise Blvd. (US 1)

This organization, which was first founded in 1973, is the largest collection and repository of books and materials that relate to all aspects of G/L/B/T studies. There are about 30,000 books alone in the collection, which makes it one of five or six largest gay libraries in North America and the largest in the Southeastern U.S. The organization that runs this has about 600 members, 500 of which are local people, and about 100 volunteers. There are two professional paid full time staffers, experts in library and archival sciences.

The Broward County Commissioners awarded the Stonewall Library the use of the former Fort Lauderdale Public Library (a newer and larger public library was built near Las Olas Blvd), practically free of charge.

Needless to say, it is very impressive ... something one would expect to see in a city like New York or Los Angeles or Chicago or Boston ... not in a laid back resort town like Fort Lauderdale.

[Clark Park]

Originally Posted by imcurious

Well, what were the statistics cited in those references?

I'm not sure what kind of "statistics" you are inquiring about, the books I cited were anthropological studies, not population or demographic analysis.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by GeorgeLucasLongLostChin

I agree and let's be honest, homophobes are frequently proving to be closeted homosexuals. I used to think this was a BS argument from the side of homosexuals, but as I got older, I've witnessed more and more homophobes turning gay. I think the multiple gay sex scandals in the biggest opponent of homosexuality in the USA assert to that.

Yep. Superficially speaking, it looks like an argument a self-interested gay rights group would make. But, as you pointed out, the evidence is there.

Typically, it's the "maculine" gay men from very rigid thinking traditional/fundamentalist backgrounds who fall into this trap. They often become superachievers in their careers, in church activities, and are ideal "family men" on the surface. They sometimes have a lot of kids as well.

As a gay man with a fairly conservative upbringing, I can't fathom how anyone would do this, but I know a lot of people do. At 17, I realized I could never get married to a womand and have kids. i thought everyone else would be like me and come to the same conclusion. Boy was i WRONG! . I didn't realize that coming out of the closet at age 19 is not a normal thing, although it's more common now than it was 20 years ago.

As I've gotten older, I've encountered the creature I've described above--some still closeted, others divorced once they reached the end of their rope and couldn't take it any more. One guy I"m acquainted with had 8 kids, was a leader in his church, etc. He had a nervous breakdown and the doctor told him he was going to die if he didn't come out of the closet. For most, it's not quite that extreme. Although we do know the suicide rate for gay teens and young adults is high.

[Clark Park]

Originally Posted by YtownGuy

It seems reasonable to assume that more of the people who are gay today are somewhat open and honest about it compared to years ago. There is no gay census out there, and we have no survey that asks everybody about his or her sexual orientation.


And how do you define sexual orientation? If someone is mainly heterosexual and has the occasional homosexual fantasy or experience, is that enough to make him or her no longer heterosexual? Some people that sexual orientation shifts from time to time, that sexual orientation is fluid.

1. I think the percentage of people who are gay, bisexual, and hetero are the same as 50 years ago, 100 years ago, or 200 years ago ... I think you are quite correct in your extrapolation that because the changing attitudes and greater degree of openness that gay people achieve over the past generation or two has made it appear there was an actual increase in the percentage of L/G/B/T people.

If we were only to look at the research done by the Institute For Sex Research at the University of Indiana, founded by the famous Dr. Alfred Kinsey, way way back in 1930s (although the actual reports were finally published after the Second World War) in the '40's we can make a reasonable determination that gay people constituted a rather significant segment of the population -- something that was surprising more than 75 years ago.

2. Sexual Orientation is not limited to just heterosexual people and homosexual people; there are indeed people - millions of them! - that fit into the classification of bisexual. In addition to that, there are some people who are asexual and have never engaged in sexual activities at all. A lot of people who are generally regarded as gay are or were actually bisexual. One example (that comes to my mind) is the famous author and playwright Oscar Wilde, who was married to a woman and fathered two sons (although I think Oscar leaned more to male than female in his preferences, but that is just my opinion.) Again it was out of the University of Indiana's Institute that we got a scale of "0" to "6" that describes the different degrees of bisexuality from people who are exclusively hetero to those who are exclusively gay.

Studies and research in Europe and other countries have reported similar results to those studies done here in North America.

[Clark Park]

Originally Posted by GeorgeLucasLongLostChin

I agree and let's be honest, homophobes are frequently proving to be closeted homosexuals. I used to think this was a BS argument from the side of homosexuals, but as I got older, I've witnessed more and more homophobes turning gay. I think the multiple gay sex scandals in the biggest opponent of homosexuality in the USA assert to that.

You mean George Rekers is gay???? How can that be? He says he is not gay!

After all he hired that handsome slender young man from Rentboy.com to "lift his luggage" while on a European vacation. That sounds perfectly reasonable to me! As a frequent traveler I know "luggage" can get heavy at times and someone has to lift it. Not so easy for an old out-of-shape guy like George Rekers!

[california-jewel]

I think as so many as you do, with our rising population, naturally your going to get more population of Gays, who have always been around, but more of this and that also.

There have been Many Gays past and present, that were famous, but back then, it was harder for them to come out of the closet, for fear, of what would happen to them.

So many times Gay People back then, had to prove something to society, and to themselves, and their families, being Gay was TABOO~ so yes of course they married, had children, did the family outings, and church, and dinner out with friends, and school functions. Until they faced reality, and the only person they were hurting was themselves. To not be who you are truly from the soul, is a sad state of affair. Things of course have changed for Gays thus why so many have come out.

But with so many negative crude remarks, that i have seen on this forum about Gays, have things really gotten that much better.

[Clark Park]

Originally Posted by california-jewel

I think as so many as you do, with our rising population, naturally your going to get more population of Gays, who have always been around, but more of this and that also.

There have been Many Gays past and present, that were famous, but back then, it was harder for them to come out of the closet, for fear, of what would happen to them.

So many times Gay People back then, had to prove something to society, and to themselves, and their families, being Gay was TABOO~ so yes of course they married, had children, did the family outings, and church, and dinner out with friends, and school functions. Until they faced reality, and the only person they were hurting was themselves. To not be who you are truly from the soul, is a sad state of affair. Things of course have changed for Gays thus why so many have come out.

You hit the nail on the head. Society is evolving to the point where it is more socially acceptable for gay people to "come out of the closet."

I wonder what kind of personal anguish and bitterness many people had to endure in order to live two lives: the public one of being a "Regular" person with spouse and children, and the other one of being virtually a criminal because of his/her true sexual orientation.

[Clark Park]

Originally Posted by california-jewel

But with so many negative crude remarks, that i have seen on this forum about Gays, have things really gotten that much better.

I hear you. But, California, you mustn't let the hateful prejudiced remarks of 2 or 3 mean spirited bigots get you down. There are always people who hate out there. I suggest you visit a forum on, say, the Holocaust, and you'll will see the relentless posting of anti-semitic Holocaust deniers and vicious anti-Jewish rantings and ravings as well.

My policy is not to feed the trolls.

Here in Philadelphia our Mayor and the entire City Council presented some kind of award to an openly Lesbian member of city government and her activism on behalf of the L/G/B/T community ... a ceremony was held in the plaza in front of City Hall, and the Mayor hoisted a "rainbow flag" on top of City Hall. Now, Philly is not San Francisco or New York or Boston - it's a rather working class blue collar city - but I think that is indicative of how far things have improved in the area of civil rights.