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Old 12-11-2010, 05:36 PM
 
1,296 posts, read 1,912,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathos View Post
Yes but see, it USED to be that working part time while collecting unemployment would ensure that you would get unemployment checks longer. You're assigned a pool of how much unemployment you're "entitled" to, and if you take less out of that pool on a week to week basis, you have it for a longer period of time. So augmenting your unemployment with part time work was a smart thing to do.

But now? Now we just grant extensions ad infinitum and the pools don't matter. People are being told they'll be able to draw from it as long as they need, no matter how long that is. So what's their motivation to go out and seek part time work now? They're not extending their benefit pool any, because their pool is essentially bottomless.
What you seem to forget, is that at an average payment of less that $325 a week, UI is not much money to live on. So why would a person want to work part time while collecting UI, when their UI payments would be reduced, if they worked part time?

People have to meet their immediate financial needs, such as paying their rent, grocery, and other primary bills. It's smart for them to spend their time looking for a full time job that would pay them enough money to live on, while they collect UI.

Last edited by artwomyn; 12-11-2010 at 05:44 PM..
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Old 12-11-2010, 06:07 PM
 
6,786 posts, read 6,889,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artwomyn View Post
I'll never understand, why so many of you posters think that the unemployed are just 'sitting around loafing'. Most are doing some serious job-hunting. Problem is, jobs are just not available, for everyone who wants one. And the unemployment rate has been rising, not shrinking.

And I'm also tired, of unemployment benefits being called 'free money'. The unemployed paid into the unemployment system via being taxed, when they were working. Then, they have to pay taxes on UI benefits AGAIN, when they file federal and state taxes, at the end of the year. So calling UI 'free money', is absolutely absurd!

You sound like you're jealous of the unemployed. How would you like to try and make ends meet on the avarage unemployment benefit check, which averages only a little over $300 a week?? It's hard enough for a single person to live on that, but it's even worse, for those who are trying to support their families.
I agree with you. All these self righteous People who talk about all the lazy unemployed people having a blast with all their free money is such a load of crap. Maybe a few young people with no families to support enjoy it as a vacation, but most really need that money to survive. UE benefits are a small fraction of people's old salary, I know people who have lost their houses, and if the benefits are cut could lose their apartments, families are falling apart, people are in a horrible position.

I have even heard people talk about suicide, but all the conservatives can say is these people are lazy and enjoying their handout. I would like them to think about what it would be like to live on a few hundred dollars a week when you have worked your ass off for years building a career so you can earn a middle class salary. People have mortgages and families to support, and their houses have plummeted in value so often they can't even sell off their houses to get some money. These people spend their day, every day looking for work, they WANT a job, but they can't support their family on minimum wage so these conservative *******s call them lazy and assume they would prefer the tiny little check that barely covers anything to getting a real job.
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Old 12-11-2010, 06:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathos View Post
According to some of the more extreme leftists on this site:

1) Republicans willing to hold up unemployment benefits and tax cuts for the middle class because they want tax cuts for *everyone*, including the middle class but also the successful = the Republicans are evil, don't care about America, are beholden to billionaires, are ruining the country, are practicing class warfare and looking to screw over the middle and lower classes for the rich all because they won't pass a tax cut bill that excludes a certain class. It's all the Republican party's fault that unemployed people will now have to forgo Christmas because the Republicans won't grant them extensions. Democrats should be applauded for fighting for the middle class.

2) Democrats willing to hold up unemployment benefits and tax cuts for the middle class because they *don't* want tax cuts for everyone, and want to siphon off even more money from the top 5% of this country, which accounts for 65% of all tax income as it is = the Republicans are evil, don't care about America, are beholden to billionaires, are ruining the country, are practicing class warfare and looking to screw over the middle and lower classes for the rich all because the Democrats won't pass a tax cut bill that *doesn't* exclude certain classes. It's all the Republican party's fault that unemployed people will now have to forgo Christmas because the Democrats won't grant them extensions. Democrats should be applauded for....holding up tax cuts and unemployment extensions because they want to gouge the successful a little more.

Got it.
It's interesting how people love to bring up that the top earners pay such a high percentage of the taxes implying that everyone else has it so easy because they supposedly don't pay large amounts in taxes (it may seem like nothing to the wealthy, but it's a lot of money to average people) while ignoring the fact that it's because the top owns all the wealth, the top 5 percent own more than half of all wealth in this country. The top 20% owns over 80% of the wealth. These people don't know what it's like to struggle to pay the bills, but they still ***** about how everyone is screwing THEM over.

The bottom 20% basically have no wealth, they usually have no assets or savings. Would you top earners like to trade with the bottom so you don't have to pay a large dollar amount in taxes? They would love to be in your position.

A household in the middle — the median household — has wealth of about $62,000. $62,000 is not insignificant, but if you consider that the top 1 percent of households’ average wealth is $12.5 million, you can see what a difference there is in the distribution. Some people won't be happy until they have all the wealth and pay no taxes, it's just pure greed.

Apparently middle class people aren't successful either, since only the wealthy are successful. Nice values!

Last edited by detshen; 12-11-2010 at 06:37 PM..
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Old 12-11-2010, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Imaginary Figment
11,457 posts, read 12,397,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathos View Post
You're trying to argue a semantic. I'm reasonably certain everybody here with an IQ higher than that of a pair of shoelaces knew what I was talking about.
Ouch.
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Old 12-11-2010, 07:03 PM
 
1,162 posts, read 1,848,800 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanathos View Post
As to point 2: You should see the difference in posts on my Facebook page from last month to this month.

Last month, not a day went by to where one of my friends on there wasn't boasting about taking some trip or going surfing or spending the day doing wine flights, etc. The term most of them were using was "Funemployment". Not 4 weeks ago there was a "Off to Rome for 2 weeks, hopefully I don't forget to 'apply' for some accounting jobs with my engineering degree lol. Funemployment rules!" They were yakkin' it up, loving every minute of it.

This month? The mood is definitively more morose amongst a great many of them. I'm seeing a lot more "Ugh, I gotta get dressed for another interview today, FML", or "GOD, I'm so sick of filling out applications, why can't they just read my resume? This sucks!!" and the like. I'm not gonna lie, a part of me smiles inside when I see it. They've been on the dole long enough. I suppose it's good work if you can get it. But it's gotta end at some point.

Oh yeah...I don't see any of my out of work friends hitting the pavement eight hours a day. Instead I hear things like, I supplement my unelployment benefits with a little from my savings and I'm taking time out to be with my kids. Or I've worked for many years and I'm taking a break. I even know a small business woman who had her husband and two oldest kids on her payroll and had to let them go two years ago when things got bad. They're all enjoying their two years of benefits. The kids went back to school for their masters and collect, the husband takes care of the younger children and collects and everyone laughs all the way the bank. Another friend has been catching up on things to do around the house for the past two years. I'm outraged! I can't imagine that this is a rare occurance. I've read that many studies show that the longer someone is on unemployment the less likely they are to look for a job. By the way, some are married with working spouses and others are single that have good savings and are living more frugal so they can stay home. Do they not realize this is theft?

NJ pays about $600/wk

Last edited by amcjap; 12-11-2010 at 07:15 PM..
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Old 12-11-2010, 08:45 PM
 
6,786 posts, read 6,889,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amcjap View Post
Oh yeah...I don't see any of my out of work friends hitting the pavement eight hours a day. Instead I hear things like, I supplement my unelployment benefits with a little from my savings and I'm taking time out to be with my kids. Or I've worked for many years and I'm taking a break. I even know a small business woman who had her husband and two oldest kids on her payroll and had to let them go two years ago when things got bad. They're all enjoying their two years of benefits. The kids went back to school for their masters and collect, the husband takes care of the younger children and collects and everyone laughs all the way the bank. Another friend has been catching up on things to do around the house for the past two years. I'm outraged! I can't imagine that this is a rare occurance. I've read that many studies show that the longer someone is on unemployment the less likely they are to look for a job. By the way, some are married with working spouses and others are single that have good savings and are living more frugal so they can stay home. Do they not realize this is theft?

NJ pays about $600/wk
MI pays a maximum of around $400. Your friends clearly don't come from the world of the average american, 60% are working or lower middle class. I have a health clinic that caters to working and lower middle class people, many of whom are unemployed. Most never had any savings, all their income went to supporting their families, if they did save anything it was gone quickly, they are all doing everything in their power to find a job. They come to me because they are terrified, they don't sleep, they are close to losing EVERYTHING. They are ashamed to be on unemployment, your friends behavior is an insult to those good hardworking people who need that money to survive, it's a lifeline for an unemployed working class person. Upper middle class people can so classist, they have no clue what it's like to struggle in life, and they make stupid assumptions about laziness or that people just want a handout, these are people who have worked hard every day of their life since they were teenagers and feel humiliated accepting help.
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Old 12-11-2010, 09:54 PM
 
1,162 posts, read 1,848,800 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detshen View Post
MI pays a maximum of around $400. Your friends clearly don't come from the world of the average american, 60% are working or lower middle class. I have a health clinic that caters to working and lower middle class people, many of whom are unemployed. Most never had any savings, all their income went to supporting their families, if they did save anything it was gone quickly, they are all doing everything in their power to find a job. They come to me because they are terrified, they don't sleep, they are close to losing EVERYTHING. They are ashamed to be on unemployment, your friends behavior is an insult to those good hardworking people who need that money to survive, it's a lifeline for an unemployed working class person. Upper middle class people can so classist, they have no clue what it's like to struggle in life, and they make stupid assumptions about laziness or that people just want a handout, these are people who have worked hard every day of their life since they were teenagers and feel humiliated accepting help.
I'm not defending their actions but you're full of assumptions yourself. I wouldn't call people making 60k-90k in NJ upper middle class. It's one of the most expensive states to live in. These people also saved all of their lives for a rainy day.
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Old 12-11-2010, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Atlanta metro
5,645 posts, read 3,998,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artwomyn View Post
In order for the unemployed to go back to work, they need JOBS. And right now, with the unemployment rate climbing again, jobs are NOT being created. Unemployment benefit extensions, are not meant to create jobs. Wonder what on earth gave you that idea! Unemployment benefit extensions, are meant to keep people from starving in the streets, until they can find jobs. And as long as the unemployment rate stays high, then unemployment benefit extensions will be needed.
UE does not create jobs, nobody ever said that (at least not before your post...I haven't gotten through the entire thread yet). UE is supposed to be temporary so people can pay bills to live until they find work. It is not a vacation, it is not fun time, it is to pay your bills while you look for new work.

So, from what I see you posting here, you support unlimited welfare for an unlimited amount of time as long as the economy sucks?

What you're not understanding is that handing out gov't checks disincentivizes working. That is the PP's whole point. I have said the same, as I'm sure you know. Why work if you can get the equivalent of 40 hours a week at minimum wage (depends on the state) just by sitting on your butt pretending to look for a job? That is how many of these people think. Not all, but there is a good portion of people who, for a variety of reasons, are not taking jobs available to them.

Wouldn't you agree that the gov't needs to be making the atmosphere one that is friendly to businesses? THAT is what creates jobs. Extending UE bennies does not help anything, in all honesty.
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Old 12-11-2010, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Atlanta metro
5,645 posts, read 3,998,331 times
Reputation: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by amcjap View Post
Oh yeah...I don't see any of my out of work friends hitting the pavement eight hours a day. Instead I hear things like, I supplement my unelployment benefits with a little from my savings and I'm taking time out to be with my kids. Or I've worked for many years and I'm taking a break. I even know a small business woman who had her husband and two oldest kids on her payroll and had to let them go two years ago when things got bad. They're all enjoying their two years of benefits. The kids went back to school for their masters and collect, the husband takes care of the younger children and collects and everyone laughs all the way the bank. Another friend has been catching up on things to do around the house for the past two years. I'm outraged! I can't imagine that this is a rare occurance. I've read that many studies show that the longer someone is on unemployment the less likely they are to look for a job. By the way, some are married with working spouses and others are single that have good savings and are living more frugal so they can stay home. Do they not realize this is theft?

NJ pays about $600/wk
So I'm not the only one who sees it!
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Old 12-11-2010, 10:21 PM
 
6,786 posts, read 6,889,685 times
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Originally Posted by amcjap View Post
I'm not defending their actions but you're full of assumptions yourself. I wouldn't call people making 60k-90k in NJ upper middle class. It's one of the most expensive states to live in. These people also saved all of their lives for a rainy day.
The classes are subjective, but 90K is upper middle class. The us median income is 46K, a large percentage of the population makes less than that. That's 3, 4,5x what the people I am talking about make, many people dream of making 35K, the cost of housing is lower here, but not by enough to make a huge difference and everything else is expensive. Saving money is a luxury many people don't have.
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