U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-10-2010, 09:54 AM
 
22,769 posts, read 25,406,219 times
Reputation: 14514

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
So what are we going to do about it?

Revolt against the corporations, or the government that allows them to do what they do, since they (Bill Clinton) dropped all regulation protecting us from this very thing.
i'm not anti-corporation, i just don't think they should be able to do anything and everything they want. For example, during the Bush admin they successfully lobbied for coal-burning power plants to be exempt from mercury standards... cheaper energy for their businesses, but more mercury being dumped into public water that does not belong to them... and ultimately, more mercury into the fish i eat. So when I see Obama putting "more EPA regulations" on businesses, am i supposed to feel sorry for them? What makes them so special, that they should be allowed to dump mercury into the public waters I swim in?

as far as free trade goes -- i tend to think it is difficult in the short-term for us, but the best decision in the long-term.

a lot of people hate unemployment benefits, and i get that -- but in my opinion it helps mitigate the personal toll taken by job loss due to free trade. i think that we are going through a structural change in the economy, and a lot of people just aren't useful anymore. it will take time for the economy to provide these people a new productive opportunity in the labor market.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-10-2010, 09:54 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
61,886 posts, read 31,321,441 times
Reputation: 13154
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
We are on a trend of a lower standard of living, less buying power, and the loss of middle class. The number of poor will steadily increase in this country as has been the trend in the past ten years.


No, that is the point in time, you woke up.

Try the last 25 years, as more and more illegal aliens started taking jobs Americans were doing and loved doing.

The last 10 years was after Bill Clinton signed the 2000 China Trade Bill, which eliminated ALL trade tariffs and offshoring restrictions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2010, 10:02 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
61,886 posts, read 31,321,441 times
Reputation: 13154
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
i'm not anti-corporation, i just don't think they should be able to do anything and everything they want. For example, during the Bush admin they successfully lobbied for coal-burning power plants to be exempt from mercury standards... cheaper energy for their businesses, but more mercury being dumped into public water that does not belong to them... and ultimately, more mercury into the fish i eat. So when I see Obama putting "more EPA regulations" on businesses, am i supposed to feel sorry for them? If you ask me they should be able to generate power without dumping mercury into public waters.

as far as free trade goes -- i tend to think it is difficult in the short-term for us, but the best decision in the long-term.

a lot of people hate unemployment benefits, and i get that -- but in my opinion it helps mitigate the personal toll taken by job loss due to free trade. i think that we are going through a structural change in the economy, and a lot of people just aren't useful anymore. it will take time for the economy to provide these people a new productive opportunity in the labor market.



What is stopping the mining corporations from closing down the mines and becoming an importer of coal? Putting all miners out of work?

Tell me?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2010, 10:06 AM
 
22,769 posts, read 25,406,219 times
Reputation: 14514
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
What is stopping the mining corporations from closing down the mines and becoming an importer of coal?
i don't know, their shareholders, i guess?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2010, 10:11 AM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,520,077 times
Reputation: 45857
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWatson13 View Post
Its not that. Give me a break. Its b/c they uses the excuse of the bad economy to cut jobs, then they made those they kept work twice as hard and profits are up with less overhead. They don't want to hire to cut profits.

Wall Street had record bonuses, why don't you complain about that.
Wall Street isn't creating the jobs. It's ordinary businesses that do. Because the "corporations" you guys are railing against are the local manufacturing operation, the engineering firm, etc. etc.

I'm always fascinated when people who aren't in business, don't own a business, or aren't a business decision maker weigh in on why businesses aren't hiring.

Trust me guys. Lots of business have steadily accumulated cash since taking it on the chin in 08 and 09. But that doesn't mean that they're lighting hundred-dollar bills or taking company junkets to Aruba.

Nope. Instead, the business community has been holding its collective breath, wondering what the hell is going to happen to the overall taxation levels in 2011. What's more, since the vast majority of businesses are LLCs or S corporations, you have zero idea of what the hiked tax rates does to the average biz owner's personal finances.

Case in point? Let's say you own a small business. Your own take-home is about $100,000. Your business nets a profit of $150,000.

Does that mean you take home an extra $150,000 at the end of the year? Nope. You keep that money in reserve, you use that money to upgrade equipment, hire more employees, give out Christmas bonuses, etc. etc. This is what is known as investment. Maybe the owner brings home a $20,000 or $40,000 dividend check, but more often than not, the vast majority of his profits get plowed right back into the company.

The problem with the tax hike? Regardless of how much money that business owner actually brought home, the company's profits are considered to be his personal income. So that business owner is considered by the government to have a personal income of $250,000 rather than the measly $120,000 he actually brought home. With the new rates, that means he could actually owe the government more money than he brought home.

Given how the government taxes S and LLC corporate owners at roughly a 33% rate, that's a $50,000 bill for taxes right off the top. That's $50,000 that the biz owner can't spend on machinery and raises for existing employees. What's more, with his own personal income being taxed at a higher rate (Despite the fact that a large percentage of that is phantom income that the business owner never sees), he's pretty much taking a bunker position, being as conservative as he can possibly be until he finds out how much damage the IRS is going to inflict.

But don't take my word for it. Let's look at an historical example. In the Great Depression, there was a huge downturn in 1938--a depression within a depression, if you will. Why? Because the overall tax rate was jacked through the roof in 1937, which completely and utterly destroyed economic incentive.

So anybody who says a massive tax hike, the kind that was deferred in the Senate this week, doesn't retard economic growth just has no clue about what's involved in running a business. And have no clue about how higher taxes suck the life out of an economy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2010, 10:12 AM
 
Location: London, U.K.
2,872 posts, read 3,224,468 times
Reputation: 1586
The reason there are so few new jobs is that there is no oil to fuel economic growth (we hit peak oil in 2005-2008)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2010, 10:13 AM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,520,077 times
Reputation: 45857
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
What is stopping the mining corporations from closing down the mines and becoming an importer of coal? Putting all miners out of work?

Tell me?
Transportation costs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2010, 10:13 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
61,886 posts, read 31,321,441 times
Reputation: 13154
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
i don't know, their shareholders, i guess?


What are the shareholders going to say at a meeting, when it is less cost to import than to produce. Which will bring in more profits for the shareholders making the decisions?


It is great to have rules & regulations to protect our American workers. It is outstanding and a must needed evil. The thing is, what is in place to protect the jobs? Sure we protect the worker and we protect them very well. What is in place to protect their jobs?

NOTHING!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2010, 10:15 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
61,886 posts, read 31,321,441 times
Reputation: 13154
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Transportation costs.


It is at the break even point now. More regulations making production cost more and the shareholders are going to vote. You think they are thinking about any worker, or just the profits?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2010, 10:23 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
61,886 posts, read 31,321,441 times
Reputation: 13154
One little thing can steam roll into affecting a lot.

As more and more jobs leave, that causes other small businesses that their customer base is reliant on those workers working to stay in business. It steam rolls into a lot of unemployment with no way out for the American.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top