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Old 12-10-2010, 10:24 AM
 
22,770 posts, read 25,293,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
What are the shareholders going to say at a meeting, when it is less cost to import than to produce.

Which will bring in more profits for the shareholders making the decisions?
well, if i was on the board, i might want to liquidate most of the domestic mines, and reinvest that capital into foreign mines, in countries with less environmental regulation. if i could continue to turn some kind of a profit on my domestic mines, but the long-term outlook didn't look good, i'd probably start returning capital to the shareholders through dividends and share buybacks.


Quote:
It is great to have rules & regulations to protect our American workers. It is outstanding and a must needed evil. The thing is, what is in place to protect the jobs? Sure we protect the worker and we protect them very well. What is in place to protect their jobs?

NOTHING!
exactly, because we have nothing that works. tarriffs on coal might save coal miners jobs, but then you lose jobs at the companies who buy and use that coal, who now pay more for their materials than their foreign competitors.

capitalism has drawbacks, and this is one of them. if full employment is your only goal, then soviet-style command economy communism is the best form of government.

Last edited by le roi; 12-10-2010 at 11:04 AM..
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Old 12-10-2010, 10:34 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
61,069 posts, read 30,951,443 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
well, if i was on the board, i might liquidate most of the domestic mines, and reinvest that capital into foreign mines. or if i could continue to turn some kind of a profit, but the long-term outlook didn't look good, i'd probably start returning capital to the shareholders through dividends and share buybacks.




exactly, because we have nothing that works. tarriffs don't work.


Then it is a coincidence, jobs started leaving at record pace as soon as NAFTA in 93 and the China Trade Bill in 2000.

Hey, there has always been cheaper labor in other nations. Why all the sudden, in the last 10 years manufacturing has left our nation? What do we manufacture & export anyway, to get into a trade war with? If it is made here, it is a majority of illegal labor making it.
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Old 12-10-2010, 10:40 AM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,353,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Then it is a coincidence, jobs started leaving at record pace as soon as NAFTA in 93 and the China Trade Bill in 2000.

Hey, there has always been cheaper labor in other nations. Why all the sudden, in the last 10 years manufacturing has left our nation? What do we manufacture & export anyway, to get into a trade war with? If it is made here, it is a majority of illegal labor making it.
Can you say Hawley Smoot Tariff Act?
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Old 12-10-2010, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,742,496 times
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We are condemned to follow the Friedman myth of a "Flat World" of open trade while everyone else knows better. We have too much ideology and not enough sense. The open trader in a world of mercantilists will always lose. By installing countervailing tariffs we could even the trade and improve the working conditions all over the world.

We do not do so because we have become controlled by the rapacious thieves of the financial industry. Business may not want to provide jobs but if they want to trade with us they damn well better. We, the people through our government, have to control the flow of money and goods to control our destiny as a country. We can start by cancelling all of the trade agreements since Nixxon (deliberate spelling) and replacing them with FAIR trade agreements..
.
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Old 12-10-2010, 10:48 AM
 
22,770 posts, read 25,293,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Then it is a coincidence, jobs started leaving at record pace as soon as NAFTA in 93 and the China Trade Bill in 2000.
in my opinion, NAFTA accelerated the short-term job losses in certain fields, but also the potential for long term economic growth.

Quote:
Hey, there has always been cheaper labor in other nations. Why all the sudden, in the last 10 years manufacturing has left our nation?
The internet is a key factor. improved communication and logistics makes it cheaper to create and manage a global supply chain.

Large developing economies like India and China and Brazil started liberalizing their markets in the past 20-30 years, and within the past 10, have really started to attract global capital investment.


Quote:
What do we manufacture & export anyway, to get into a trade war with? If it is made here, it is a majority of illegal labor making it.
United States Exports

Main exports are: machinery and equipment, industrial supplies, non-auto consumer goods, motor vehicles and parts, aircraft and parts, food, feed and beverages. Main export partners are: Canada, European Union, Mexico, China and Japan.

if you want names, companies like Boeing and Caterpillar are very successful exporters.

it is a bit of a myth that we are "losing our manufacturing base to China." this is not exactly true. At the moment what we are losing is mainly manufacturing jobs. Either the operation is being upgraded, where these workers are being replaced domestically by fewer, higher-trained workers using more expensive tools, or the operation is being shipped overseas for the cheaper labor.

If you ask me, the question isn't, "How to protect these jobs," but rather, how to help these workers find a new place in the labor market.

Last edited by le roi; 12-10-2010 at 11:08 AM..
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Old 12-10-2010, 10:56 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,556 posts, read 18,796,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
And American workers are just sucking it in and working longer with less benefits and in some cases less pay. I see it going on at my job. We lost people yet the workload is the same.
Morale is in the toilet and has been since the mass firings. Few trust upper management and every quarter we wait to see if there's more layoffs.
Wife is a good example of the above.
She worked for one company until one fine day the owners called and told her to shut the doors,just like that.
She went and found a job that afternoon,making the same base pay.After a very short time she was given a $5000/year raise to make up for the lack of commission at the new position.
Then that was taken back.
Then paid holidays were taken away.
Then 1/3 of the staff was laid off.
Then the entire sales staff was given the choice-straight commission or no job.
Then they told some people even though on straight commission,they are still expected to work 40 hours a week.
Then they floated the idea of working weekends and public holidays,for no additional money..
Now they are looking to see if they will keep health insurance.

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Old 12-10-2010, 10:58 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,556 posts, read 18,796,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Your blaming corporations. Who lets them do what they do? Who dropped Trade Tariffs and who wants 8-30 million illegal aliens to remain here?
Both parties???
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Old 12-10-2010, 10:59 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,556 posts, read 18,796,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
That trent of lowering our standard of living is the Progressive plan! Don't you know this? The Progressive plan is to ship our wealth to other poor countries.
There are two ways to make everyone 'equal'.

You raise up those who are lower.

Or you push down those who are higher.
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Old 12-10-2010, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Upstate
5,510 posts, read 6,247,943 times
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If we can compete with China and India with competitive production labor rates, then we will see millions and millions of jobs created virtually overnight as pretty much all companies involved in importing do not like it. It is a PITA on a monumental scale that nobody wants the headache of, they only forced to do it because the labor rates in the U.S. are so expensive.

If we ever really accept the idea of a sustainable economy, we'll have to get used to the idea of much more expensive stuff. For instance, you can buy appliance made in Germany. They cost more, but they are made by 1st world workers. America used to do the same thing. Same with cameras, TVs, etc.
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Old 12-10-2010, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Santa Barbara
1,474 posts, read 2,591,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
.

Try the last 25 years, as more and more illegal aliens started taking jobs Americans were doing and loved doing.
Illegal immigrants aren't TAKING anything. Employers who are breaking the law are GIVING them jobs. Stop blaming illegal immigrants for taking something offered. If businesses were willing to pay a legal and fair wage and hire legal workers where would these immigrants work?
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