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Old 12-11-2010, 03:16 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,013 posts, read 14,188,739 times
Reputation: 16727

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So let's get the background covered, fast.
[] USA was unique because of its republican form of government (people were sovereigns)
[] USA was infiltrated and slowly transformed into a democracy
[] USA was further infiltrated and transformed into a socialist democracy, via consent, obtained by fraud (via FICA)
[] USA was bankrupted by usurers, reorganized to prosecute the bankruptcy against the people
[] USA has been "ruled" by the usurer / collectivist alliance for generations
[] USA is about to enter a terminal collapse, due in part to an impossible to repay public debt, an interest burden that is ever rising, the drain of deficit spending, widespread rebellion against the imminent increase in tax burdens, restrictions on liberty, and unWar costs.
[] The aftermath, if nothing changes, will be the People's Democratic Socialist Republic of America, absent that "pesky" U.S. Constitution.
References:
Collective Ownership by the State -
http://www.treas.gov/education/faq/c...ender.shtml#q2
"Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy."
How we were robbed by FDR and the socialists
The Great Gold Robbery of 1933 - Thomas E. Woods, Jr. - Mises Daily

http://www.city-data.com/forum/15895513-post18.html
Money Reference

Emergency Powers Statutes, Senate Report SR 93-549, November 19, 1973
Senate Report 93-549
War and Emergency Powers Acts

"A majority of the people of the United States have lived all of their lives under emergency rule. For 40 years (1933-1973), freedoms and governmental procedures guaranteed by the Constitution have, in varying degrees, been abridged by laws brought into force by states of national emergency."
Most Americans have lived their entire lives under EMERGENCY RULES that abridge FREEDOMS guaranteed by the USCON... (Yes, they TOOK AWAY our FREEDOMS, and have the arrogance to invade Asian nations to "preserve Freedom"!).

America is [expletive deleted] !

http://www.city-data.com/forum/16945199-post17.html
(Also links to more reference data on real money)

Info on money and usury here:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/9106176-post92.html

Usury tidbits:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/7647779-post84.html
SO NOW WHAT DO WE DO?

Frankly, I have no expectation that the indoctrinated millions will suddenly get "religion" and study law. Nor will they suddenly realize that socialism is their worst enemy - or should I reserve "worst" for usury?

The recipient class will fight to the bitter end to retain their benefits, regardless of the dread consequences to the nation.

The donor class will be slowly ground down, and collapse under the load.

Even the "rich" will be sorely pressed, for they won't fare any better regardless of their accumulation of money tokens.

In short, we're going to face a protracted period of chaos, rioting, shortages, deprivation, and suffering.

Failure to plan is planning to fail.

So the "Wise Ants" will accumulate a store of supplies to ride out the worst of the crisis.

Hopefully, the survivors will not make the mistake of surrendering their birthright of sovereignty, freedom and independence, for the lies of collectivists and usurers. But I wouldn't rely on wisdom winning the day.

It's going to be bad, folks. And it will get worse.

OR

Things might actually be improved, socialism abolished, the burdens on the productive removed, and the rewards to the non-productive ended. The Federal government might be scaled back by 93%, as would taxes. The national debt would be abolished, on the grounds of fraud. No recipient of public funds could vote for at least two years (beggars can't be choosers). Limited liability would be abolished (no more immunity for corporations, or investors). No contract for usury shall be enforced in any court.

All partisan politicking and government meddling would be removed from the private sector.

Instead of "making money", folks will build prosperity - the old fashioned way: produce, trade, and enjoy surplus usable goods and services. Productive people and businesses create private money with which to purchase that which they make, and are no longer trapped by "money madness" nor need access to "credit" from the usurer.

To save on energy and increase arable land, suburban sprawl would end. People would settle in more concentrated high population density developments, and have access to energy efficient, frugal electric traction rail mass transit.

With unfettered productivity, America rebounds, building ever greater prosperity.

Some more ideas :
Cut Back The Federal Government by 90%

The National Electric Railroad Initiative

Non-partisan bitter medicine for the USA

Dr Evil Dictator's sure fire cure for unemployment

Dr Evil Dictator's sure fire cure for the economy

Call me Dr. Evil Dictator
Frankly, I don't see America averting catastrophe, so I'd not expect recovery any time soon. I am a cynical pragmatist.

But I had to make the effort to get this "out there".

It's now up to you to survive, thrive or die.
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Old 12-11-2010, 09:33 AM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,917,108 times
Reputation: 12828
Plan for the worst, work towards the best, expect nothing except the unexpected.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,247,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Plan for the worst, work towards the best, expect nothing except the unexpected.
And remember that there is no such thing as "security". Tomorrow it could all cave in and dissapear, in the big picture or in your own life. Remember that its fine to dream but appreciate each day and take joy in what is real and here too. Even little things make a difference.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:41 PM
 
871 posts, read 1,630,124 times
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Quote:
Hopefully, the survivors will not make the mistake of surrendering their birthright of sovereignty, freedom and independence, for the lies of collectivists and usurers. But I wouldn't rely on wisdom winning the day.
unfortunately, this is just a circular statement.

all societies are collectivist. it's just that capitalism isn't collectivist but based on those survival of the fittest and about independence or individual gain. that's exactly what is the outcome now. those who have the winnings will be fine and those who don't, won't.

people are afraid to admit that. it's similar to how people have a hard time resolving the bad in religion or the bible with the belief that it's all good so they make up excuses.

no, it's not really socialism as much as capitalism, pure and simple. freedom and independence mean not having to answer to no one and doing what's in your best interest even if it screws another. americans want to pretend their capitalistic desires are in line with morality or a sense of justice. it's smoke and mirrors, end of story.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:50 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,731,689 times
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Republic, democracy, those are insignificant differences. The problem is the American way. And it was from the very beginning of your nation, thus evils like slavery. Already back then haves wanted to maximize profits and concentrate wealth. It's the lack of wisdom, humility, and modesty that is gradually destroying your country and society. Back at the beginning of the US those flaws did not matter much as the US was just one country of many, with a very small population. At the time of the declaration of independence there were only about 5m people living in all of the US, now it's 320m.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,247,964 times
Reputation: 16939
Quote:
Originally Posted by rory00 View Post
unfortunately, this is just a circular statement.

all societies are collectivist. it's just that capitalism isn't collectivist but based on those survival of the fittest and about independence or individual gain. that's exactly what is the outcome now. those who have the winnings will be fine and those who don't, won't.

people are afraid to admit that. it's similar to how people have a hard time resolving the bad in religion or the bible with the belief that it's all good so they make up excuses.

no, it's not really socialism as much as capitalism, pure and simple. freedom and independence mean not having to answer to no one and doing what's in your best interest even if it screws another. americans want to pretend their capitalistic desires are in line with morality or a sense of justice. it's smoke and mirrors, end of story.
It doesn't really matter who is orchestrating things or what their political persuasion is. In the end everyone loses, the slogans are just different. But the underlying process is the same. Take a little, wait, take some more, wait, take a bigger bite, see if it plays and wait, etc until you can take what you want because its tipped the balance. Same old same old repeated over and over in history.

I really wish we insisted our kids learned real history and studied how freedoms vanish so they had the training to *see*. But then we haven't for a long time. I get it because I have long been fascinated by history and read far from the list. Most people are happy to get out of it with a passing grade.

And yes, knowing about the past DOES matter as it will always cycle back.
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Old 12-11-2010, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,377,473 times
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1. A Republican form of government is not the people who decide what goes on.

The United States has a Democratic Republic form of government. If we were completely Democratic, then yes, the people would decide the issues and rule themselves. If we were a Republic, then officials of the people would decide issues for us. In our system, we elect the officials that make the decisions for us.

2. The United States was changed into a socialist democracy.

We aren't socialist, and the members of the "greatest generation" decided that some government assistance for the poorest Americans was good for business. This kept crime rates low, and made for a better climate for business. We could go back to where people lived in dank, dark slums like they did in NYC and other parts of the country when we had no social programs, or we can continue with the path that kept us the greatest super power on the planet for years.

3. The United States has slowly changed into a theocratic fascist government, that only serves the military industrial complex.

Since people were "fat dumb and happy" from the social programs, it allowed government entities who were backed by companies making money from endless military expansion to increase the debt to increase the corporations and individuals personal wealth. Eisenhower warned against this, so don't call him a socialist or a liberal. We have a military that costs at least 4 times what the rest of the world spends on their military combined, and at least half of the world are our allies, and that means we really spend about 8 times what the rest of the world that aren't our allies spend. We spend 8 times what China does alone, our only possible real advisory. Yet we continue going deeper and deeper into debt to continue the military expansion, continue growing those companies that make money from it, while we argue about money that really amounts to nothing of our budget. Facism is defined as authoritative government that is closely tied to the industrial base of the country. Thats what we have today, and most of the country is to stupid to realize that the arguments of food stamps, socialism, and other things are simply straw men problems. Liberals are left fighting for things that shouldn't be fought over, which allows them no time to focus on the real problems, and conservatives have been tricked into believing that the social programs that amount to nothing of the deficit (those that people don't like anyway) are really the problem. Conservatives support medicare and social security, which make up most of what are called "entitlements", and argue over food stamps and welfare which make up nothing of the deficit.

The OP should really take some time to analyze the budget, and compare what we spend on things to the rest of the world. You've been tricked, along with most everyone else. I don't like big government, I like tax cuts. I think we could get by on far less than what we spend now, but I get labeled a liberal by some because I know that the fish that needs frying, is the ones that no one talks about.
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Old 12-11-2010, 04:35 PM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,917,108 times
Reputation: 12828
Quote:
Originally Posted by rory00 View Post
unfortunately, this is just a circular statement.

all societies are collectivist. it's just that capitalism isn't collectivist but based on those survival of the fittest and about independence or individual gain. that's exactly what is the outcome now. those who have the winnings will be fine and those who don't, won't.

people are afraid to admit that. it's similar to how people have a hard time resolving the bad in religion or the bible with the belief that it's all good so they make up excuses.

no, it's not really socialism as much as capitalism, pure and simple. freedom and independence mean not having to answer to no one and doing what's in your best interest even if it screws another. americans want to pretend their capitalistic desires are in line with morality or a sense of justice. it's smoke and mirrors, end of story.

Your opinion (underlined). Actually, I believe it will be those who have the most that have the most difficult adjusting. Those who have known life without much, and have made do without government reliance, will be those best equipped and those who face less change in the status of their lives.

To measure it up as those with the "winnings" negates the existence of skills, knowledge, street smarts, mindset, familial and social networking and all the skills and knowledge and offerings those people collectively bring to the dance. Perhaps most importantly you leave out faith and the human spirit.

When I read writings like your that focus on categorizing the "haves and have nots" as either those with the "winnings" or those who've been "screwed" I can't help but reflect on how important it is not to measure one's success or position in terms of material goods. You, and other's posting similarly, leave out everything that actually makes us human. But then, I try to see the glass as always at least half full. YMMV.
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:16 PM
 
Location: it depends
6,369 posts, read 6,405,709 times
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Default Jetgraphics, I'm sympathetic to your view, but...

The American system, resting on the twin pillars of freedom and capitalism, is the most productive organizing prinicpal ever dscovered in all of human history. The poorest among us live better than the kings of 300 years ago.

The advances in living standards that we have made from say, 1970 to 2010 or 1930 to 1970 or 1890 to 1930 paint a picture of unimaginable progress.

The keys to this progress have been that in America, people are more free to unlock the highest fraction of their own potential than anywhere else on Earth. And capitalism, in its pure form, embodies an ehtical system in which every transaction produces two winners and no losers. You want the groceries more than you want the money in your pocket; the grocer prefers the money to the goods. At the checkout counter, you both win. The grocer competes against all other grocers, knowing he must deliver maximum value per dollar to win your business. You are free to vote with your wallet as you see fit.

Here are the real threats to the system and to our prosperity:

There is necessarily a disparity in outcomes as the work ethic, native abilities, and devotion to improving one's value to the rest of society vary among individuals. Pressure to equalize outcomes results in drag on the potential returns on self-improvement as net producers are taxed to support net consumers. Although our poor are in better shape than 90% of all people who have ever been born, envy of those who create fabulous wealth is always an issue.

The political system has bastardized capitalism by selling favors to narrow interests. The owners of NASCAR racetracks and the importers of rum and the distillers of ethanol have been able to carve out privileged positions in our tax code, at the expense of all others.

A further political problem is the club of regulation used to extort money from net producers for political purposes--and to enshrine entrenched interests at the expense of creative newcomers.

The health of the system requires that each person has the ability to maximize their own potential. Our failed public schools, the tragedy of the cities, is a huge threat.

If we understood these truths, we all would seek radical reform of education, a complete levelling of the playing field with regard to the tax code, a proper, limited role for regulation, and a renewed sense of the foundation of American exceptionalism.

Although we will not reach the ideal, I am optimistic. We will stumble through; the strengths of the system and the ingenuity of the people should not be underestimated.
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Old 12-12-2010, 12:32 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,013 posts, read 14,188,739 times
Reputation: 16727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
1. A Republican form of government is not the people who decide what goes on.

The United States has a Democratic Republic form of government. If we were completely Democratic, then yes, the people would decide the issues and rule themselves. If we were a Republic, then officials of the people would decide issues for us. In our system, we elect the officials that make the decisions for us.
I can only suggest that you read the law, and legal definitions.
I cannot argue with opinions founded on disinformation fed to us for generations.

I was ignorant of law until my late 30's, when circumstances compelled me to READ it myself.

Only after reading it, did I learn the truth.

If you doubt the "Socialists" are in power, read this:
People's Democratic Socialist Republic of America
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