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Old 12-11-2010, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,169 posts, read 9,277,381 times
Reputation: 9075

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Capitalist Principles
CAPITALISM - An economic system in which the means of production, distribution and exchange are privately owned and operated for private profit.
- - - WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY

PRIVATE PROPERTY - "As protected from being taken for public uses, is such property as belongs absolutely to an individual, and of which he has the exclusive right of disposition. Property of a specific, fixed and tangible nature, capable of being in possession and transmitted to another, such as houses, lands, and chattels."
- - - Black's Law dictionary, sixth ed., p.1217
If you concatenate capitalism with private property, you can see the "inconvenient truth".
Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production, distribution and exchange are absolutely owned by individuals and operated for their individual profit.
A farmer who absolutely owns his farm is a true capitalist.
A farmer who does not, is a tenant.
A worker who absolutely owns the fruits of his labor is a true capitalist.
A worker who does not, is a serf.

Corporations are not absolutely owned by individuals, since corporations are creatures of the government, existing by permission. They are NOT private property. And since corporations engage in usury, again, they are not part of capitalism, despite investors calling themselves "capitalists".

Since 1933, no dollars have circulated, so we can dispense with the notion of a "free market", for no one has "paid debt" pursuant to the USCON in 77 years.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Texas State Fair
8,567 posts, read 9,373,936 times
Reputation: 4220
It's government intervention is what failed.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:53 PM
 
10,813 posts, read 6,961,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofurkey View Post
It's government intervention is what failed.
Not exactly, government intervention was actually successful at saving the banks and then turning a profit when selling off bank stock.

We need to separate commercial banking and investment banking. That would be a big help.
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Old 12-11-2010, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Boise
2,008 posts, read 2,916,678 times
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This failure isn't necessarily capitalism itself, its the way we ran the capitalist system. The whole game was rigged from the get-go in favor of business - effectively disenfranchising whole groups of people in order to give control to the upper crust. But that was pretty much inevitable; in a system where citizens of a society are in constant competition with each other over the basic necessities of life you can't expect a "level playing field".

A couple of authors tried to warn us of this around 1850, and we've done nothing but vilify them ever since...
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Old 12-11-2010, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Austin
29,027 posts, read 15,654,303 times
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[quote=Motion;16968546]Anyone familair with the distinction between the two?


Here economist Josph Stiglitz talks about the end of free market fundamentalism but he describes the U.S system as being corporatist(corporate socialism) and not a free market. So which failed exactly?
/quote]


We haven't had a free market economy in a century or so. We have a government controlled economy and the best name for it is crony capitalism. When the president can decide which companies fail and which companies he chooses to bail out, that's not even close to a free market.
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Old 12-11-2010, 07:40 PM
 
10,963 posts, read 7,798,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
Anyone familair with the distinction between the two?


Here economist Josph Stiglitz talks about the end of free market fundamentalism but he describes the U.S system as being corporatist(corporate socialism) and not a free market. So which failed exactly?




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_2-T...1&feature=fvwp

Neither failed, corporate profits are at their highest level in American history. And the market economics is just fine. They just don't work in America's favor now because a country with an aging population with an employer based health insurance, crumbling infrastructure, a shrinking middle class laden with debt and declining incomes, and rising poverty, simply isn't a good place to invest in right now.
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Old 12-11-2010, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Houston area, for now
948 posts, read 1,207,409 times
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The OP questions leaves out that we (myself included) have failed as Americans to control our government officials and treat them like the employees that they are. Additional we do not use our purchase power to control big business. Oil goes up and we don't change our driving stile. Business outsource and we still buy there products. China puts led in kids toys and we still buy them.
I am not saying go buy a VW bug or stop watching TV but business and the government both answer to the people and we fail at taking charge. Corporations haven't let us down, the free market hasn't let us down, and government hasn't let us down We the people have and when we take charge then the the things mentioned will work as the fathers envisioned. Until we take responsibility for our own destiny we will be in the same place we are today.
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Old 12-11-2010, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 70,244,233 times
Reputation: 27525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
Not exactly, government intervention was actually successful at saving the banks and then turning a profit when selling off bank stock.

We need to separate commercial banking and investment banking. That would be a big help.
We did after the Great Depression.
Glass-Steagall was it's name.
It got repealed under Clinton and pushed by a Repub who then went to work for the banks after it got signed into law.

Notice I got both a Dem and a Repub in that sentence where Glass-Steagall got repealed....BOTH parties..one pushed the change and the other signed it into law.
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Old 12-11-2010, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,336 posts, read 14,222,466 times
Reputation: 10148
Quote:
Originally Posted by tofurkey View Post
It's government intervention is what failed.
Agreed.

Along with bribery between big corps and gov't which allowed for justice to turn a blind eye to corporate wrongdoings.

Market has not totally been on a free and fair playing field.
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Old 12-11-2010, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,336 posts, read 14,222,466 times
Reputation: 10148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewmik View Post
The OP questions leaves out that we (myself included) have failed as Americans to control our government officials and treat them like the employees that they are. Additional we do not use our purchase power to control big business. Oil goes up and we don't change our driving stile. Business outsource and we still buy there products. China puts led in kids toys and we still buy them.
I am not saying go buy a VW bug or stop watching TV but business and the government both answer to the people and we fail at taking charge. Corporations haven't let us down, the free market hasn't let us down, and government hasn't let us down We the people have and when we take charge then the the things mentioned will work as the fathers envisioned. Until we take responsibility for our own destiny we will be in the same place we are today.
Before I am forced to change my driving style - I would like NASCAR and drag racing stopped - either that or they need to be racing in Toyota Priuses.
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