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Old 12-12-2010, 10:26 AM
 
10,720 posts, read 16,852,716 times
Reputation: 9878

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkiel View Post
Of course hard work is important, but most of the rich are also very lucky. You need luck AND hard-work to be rich. The problem with setting taxes is that people just assume that the rich's wealth is proportional to their effort. I don't think that's true. I think it's more like after a certain amount of effort, you need luck to be super successful.

That's why I think the rich needs to have more taxes. It accounts for the luck factor.

The book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell talks a lot about how people become successful.
Funny because when I went to Target, I didn't see three separate price tags for the items I purchased. I didn't see $2 for Lower Income people, $5 for Middle Class people and $10 for Rich people. I paid the same sales tax as the next guy despite my income.

Why don't we just charge rich people higher prices if all of a sudden we are going to hold wealthy people accountable to bail out our country's economy? After all some people are lucky and born rich so why shouldn't we charge them $5 for a Big Mac instead of $3. Why shouldn't we charge people higher property taxes regardless of the price of their home if they are wealthy?

Why stop with income taxes? Why not just charge them more when purchasing items, property tax and sales tax? Why not make us carry an ID card that has our W2 on it and based on that code, we should be charged higher prices? "Sorry sir, since you make $500K per year, you are required to pay 20% sales tax for this item" The concept is the same. Rich people should pay so why stop with income taxes?

Great argument!
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:00 AM
 
24,511 posts, read 34,160,783 times
Reputation: 12779
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Funny because when I went to Target, I didn't see three separate price tags for the items I purchased. I didn't see $2 for Lower Income people, $5 for Middle Class people and $10 for Rich people. I paid the same sales tax as the next guy despite my income.

Why don't we just charge rich people higher prices if all of a sudden we are going to hold wealthy people accountable to bail out our country's economy? After all some people are lucky and born rich so why shouldn't we charge them $5 for a Big Mac instead of $3. Why shouldn't we charge people higher property taxes regardless of the price of their home if they are wealthy?

Why stop with income taxes? Why not just charge them more when purchasing items, property tax and sales tax? Why not make us carry an ID card that has our W2 on it and based on that code, we should be charged higher prices? "Sorry sir, since you make $500K per year, you are required to pay 20% sales tax for this item" The concept is the same. Rich people should pay so why stop with income taxes?

Great argument!
What about this idea? The poor contribute significantly less to the economy than the rich. We should charge the poor extra tax to compensate.

Sarcasm Implied.
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:07 AM
 
69,372 posts, read 53,638,390 times
Reputation: 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
What about this idea? The poor contribute significantly less to the economy than the rich. We should charge the poor extra tax to compensate.

Sarcasm Implied.
Clearly the poor benefit the most from society.. They get housing, food, healthcare, not able to send their kids to private school so public schools are needed. Often times they are more subseptable to needing the police for domestic calls, drugs, violence, where the rich can afford private security etc.. If we were going to start to make people pay based upon their use of services, many on this board would be in very poor shape..
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:15 AM
 
Location: The #1 sunshine state, Arizona.
12,172 posts, read 15,018,918 times
Reputation: 64014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkiel View Post
Of course hard work is important, but most of the rich are also very lucky. You need luck AND hard-work to be rich. The problem with setting taxes is that people just assume that the rich's wealth is proportional to their effort. I don't think that's true. I think it's more like after a certain amount of effort, you need luck to be super successful.

That's why I think the rich needs to have more taxes. It accounts for the luck factor.

The book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell talks a lot about how people become successful.
Maybe that way of thinking gets you through the cold Canadian nights, but it will never help you become successful. I might call some rich folks fortunate, but lucky, only if they won the lottery.

When you take from the rich and give to the poor, there is no incentive for the poor to earn money. Womb to tomb welfare makes it all too clear.
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:18 AM
 
871 posts, read 1,414,952 times
Reputation: 443
Quote:
When you take from the rich and give to the poor, there is no incentive for the poor to earn money. Womb to tomb welfare makes it all too clear.
this type of unthinking rhetoric is very sad. it is also pretty damn dishonest. it makes you wonder why people get away with it, i suspect it's because most people would rather live with the prospect of getting rich than living in a system that is not as imbalanced. you are indicating an extreme.

but how did they rich get that way? no one gets rich by themselves, it's ignoring the big pink elephant in the room. the rich get rich also by the contribution and work of others.

this is a case where an imbalance is offset because of a system of imbalance.

it is what it is but that's the way people are, greed and they can't trust others to not be greedy themselves. sad.
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Some Beach... Somewhere...
4,572 posts, read 3,834,505 times
Reputation: 4738
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
What about this idea? The poor contribute significantly less to the economy than the rich. We should charge the poor extra tax to compensate.

Sarcasm Implied.
Since they're in the part of the populace - currently 47% - not paying any income tax, this sounds like a good idea to me! The free ride has to end somewhere, and I'm tired of paying the fare for more ride than I am getting. A consumption tax would be much more fair.

The sarcasm is misplaced here.
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:48 AM
 
24,511 posts, read 34,160,783 times
Reputation: 12779
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
Since they're in the part of the populace - currently 47% - not paying any income tax, this sounds like a good idea to me! The free ride has to end somewhere, and I'm tired of paying the fare for more ride than I am getting. A consumption tax would be much more fair.

The sarcasm is misplaced here.
In all honesty, I don't think anyone really pays any income tax. By my income, some might consider myself wealthy (I do not), but I don't pay a dime in taxes because the tax system doesn't require me to. I sure hope that none of my employees pay income tax either... I try to guide them in ways to avoid it.

You really have to be a sucker to pay any significan amount in income taxes with the current tax code.
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Marion, IA
2,796 posts, read 5,364,113 times
Reputation: 1576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkiel View Post
Of course hard work is important, but most of the rich are also very lucky. You need luck AND hard-work to be rich. The problem with setting taxes is that people just assume that the rich's wealth is proportional to their effort. I don't think that's true. I think it's more like after a certain amount of effort, you need luck to be super successful.

That's why I think the rich needs to have more taxes. It accounts for the luck factor.

The book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell talks a lot about how people become successful.
What makes a lot of people "rich" is they are SMART with their money. They did not spend money on more than they needed and piled their money into investments. And of course they also worked hard.

Buying a $20,000 new car on a $38,000 salary is a good example of somebody who will never become rich...
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:52 AM
 
871 posts, read 1,414,952 times
Reputation: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
Since they're in the part of the populace - currently 47% - not paying any income tax, this sounds like a good idea to me! The free ride has to end somewhere, and I'm tired of paying the fare for more ride than I am getting. A consumption tax would be much more fair.

The sarcasm is misplaced here.
omg.

a child could figure out what's wrong with the system. blame the poor and take more from them to offset because people know the rich are not going to budge and have the power.

squeeze more blood from a rock.
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:55 AM
 
871 posts, read 1,414,952 times
Reputation: 443
Quote:
What makes a lot of people "rich" is they are SMART with their money. They did not spend money on more than they needed and piled their money into investments. And of course they also worked hard.

Buying a $20,000 new car on a $38,000 salary is a good example of somebody who will never become rich...
that's not what capitalism is about. the lie is everyone can become rich. of course they can't, people need others to work for them at less pay.

people should at least be honest enough to stop pretending that anyone and everyone can get rich.

what is so "totally" dishonest about your statement is not all rich people work hard or worked harder. getting rich is not always about "working hard" as it is about being able to be enterprising and working a system to your advantage. and to be honest, that would be more disadvantageous to another as a result. there are plenty of non-rich people that work very hard. there are also plenty of people who are rich because they 'own', not necessarily because they work harder then their employees. anyone familiar with capitalism knows these basics so i dont' understand all this bs that people spew as if people don't know.

i can see by the majority of the posts that humanity will continue to have these problems that everyone is arguing over on these forums because everyone is out for themselves. there will be no real solution.
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