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Old 12-11-2010, 06:59 PM
 
4,379 posts, read 4,284,136 times
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lol... isn't the notion of taxing the rich an essential small penis/loser syndrome?

Should good looking people be curbed to two dates per year, since ugly people feel left out/envious?

I think enmity towards the rich simply stems from envy, or infantile notions/concepts of fairness. Granted, economic inequality is a bad thing if at too high a margin, but the hate the rich attitude just stems from envy, nothing more nothing less.
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Old 12-11-2010, 07:03 PM
 
Location: SARASOTA, FLORIDA
11,501 posts, read 13,048,945 times
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I totally disagree.

I know many rich people including several millionaires who started from ZERO, worked hard and became SUCCESSFUL through hard work, determination and the will to succeed.

I do not know any rich people who were handed money and do not know that luck as anything to do with it either.

All of the rich people I know just were smarter then others and started then own business, worked 16-20 hour days and became successful at it.

Most are intelligent and have good work ethics taught to them by good hard working parents.

Please stop being jealous of rich people, most of them made it because they worked harder, longer and smarter then others.

Luck is a very SMALL part of it.

Jealous non rich people are not rich because they usually are not willing to work 16 hour days, have no business sense, usually not very intelligent and wont give what it takes to become successful at anything.

Add in the fact most of them could not run a business if it was handed to them to begin with.

Poor people are poor for a reason and rich people are rich for the reasons I stated above.

No reason anyone should be poor in America even during a recession.
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Old 12-11-2010, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Atlanta metro
5,645 posts, read 3,978,506 times
Reputation: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by odinloki1 View Post
If you have the connections and excellent education, then you didn't necessarily make it on your own. Yes you worked hard, and congrats too you on your success, but you already had connections right off the bat that get you the interview, get you the attention that someone who doesn't have your family name might not get. How about the nice internship and the opportunity to make connections.

Additionally your family had wealth and security. If something goes wrong with someone's health, you don't have to quit your education to work to support the family. How about the burden of student loans, did you take out loans for everything? How about the interest rate on them????

Not to mention you had better food, healthier environment etc. than someone who lives in inner city USA. You had the benefits of better upbringing. It isn't everything, but it ramps up the odds in your favor.

Again you worked hard and deserve to be in the higher bracket I'm sure. But really where did you start out at??? I'm betting you had quite a nice head start. Don't overestimate what wealth and status gets you in this country.

If you really think that wealth is a minimal factor, you should be completely in favor of an estate tax and use it to fund higher education. Let those who are best qualified and hardest working get the rewards, not someone who won out in the lottery for wealthiest, most connected parents.

So much of success is the luck factor. Even intelligence. You simply lucked out on good genetics and parents who were responsible in raising you.
Who says rich people don't make their own connections? Who says they never do internships in school? Who says they didn't get a merit-based scholarship and not have to use "Mommy and Daddy's" money for college?

Who said all poor and middle-class folks had to stop their education to tend to a sick family member?

I took out a student loan and as much as I hate it, I did it to get to a better place in life. The interest rate is like what it would be for a credit card for someone with good credit, and they give this same rate to everyone. But that's all beside the point, b/c you don't know how these people paid for school, again. I should add that just b/c you have an MBA from Harvard paid for by your parents doesn't mean you're automatically going to get a good job. Nobody hands someone a job just b/c they have a degree, a degree that is becoming more commonplace and doesn't stand out against the competition anymore.

Who said poor and middle-class folks don't eat well enough? What does food even have to do with anything? I don't really eat so well but that has had no impact on success in the workplace. I can see how fat people would have an issue getting a job, b/c let's face it, some people discriminate like that, but overall, obesity is not exclusively a poor man's disease. By your logic, rich people are probably fatter b/c they can afford to purchase more food.

Healthier environment, I'll give you that. But not all poor people live in the inner city. Not all rich people live in mansions.

It's not about being in a higher bracket...unless you're talking about taxes (in which case, I don't believe anyone should be taxed disproportionately). Nobody thinks they're better than anyone. I guess some do, but some poor people feel entitled, which is like them saying they're better than the next guy b/c they just DESERVE that handout more. There are superiority complexes in every social and economic strata.

I also don't think it's about having a head start. Parenting definitely has a lot to do with future success but bad parenting is not exclusive to being poor. I will say, my DH's mom didn't do such a fine job of parenting but DH is one of the most hardworking people I've ever met and he is successful. They were poor growing up. He came out of nothing and made himself into something. Anyone can do it with hard work and perseverance. My husband is not unique in this way.

The estate tax bit has nothing to do with anything. How do you know those people's children haven't worked for the family business since they were 16? Also, why would it fund education? If you want the smartest and hardest-working kids to have a college education...you're missing the fact that there are already scholarships and grants galore for people who work hard in high school and maintain good grades.

So it's "lucky" now that some inherited good genes and had awesome parents? Riiiiight. Have you ever heard of Darwin?
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Old 12-11-2010, 07:08 PM
 
30,921 posts, read 24,309,420 times
Reputation: 17820
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkiel View Post
Why did you strive for a hotel management position instead of an investment banking VP? If everyone can do the same thing, and if you were willing to try your best then why didn't you work at an investment bank?

I think I know a few reasons.

You didn't go to a magnet school because your parents couldn't afford the 30K per year for a private school.

You didn't get into the top private universities because you couldn't afford them and didn't have the chance in high school to get really good grades (you were probably working during the summer when some classmates went to Brazil to volunteer).

You might have had community college education but the top investment banks don't hire from CCs.

You didn't get an MBA (last chance for IB) because you didn't get a BA from a top school and you couldn't afford the 200K tuition.

Basically, you had no chance of working at a top investment bank and earning $1M per year as a VP. I just proved that "we all can do the same thing IF we are willing to do" is false.
why should i have gone into investment banking? what is wrong with the hotel industry? hilton made his money in the hotel industry, as did many others. one does not have to have the best education to make themselves rich though, take bill gates, he dropped out of college, dave thomas never went to college, neither did sam walton or colonel sanders, or many others who made themselves rich, and NONE of the ones i mentioned were investment bankers.

and why so you think that only investment bankers can get rich? you have an extremely myopic view of the world.
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Old 12-11-2010, 07:09 PM
 
10,818 posts, read 6,924,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea3821 View Post
That doesn't make sense. VAT artificially inflates the price of the good. The end user might pay the same or more with a VAT plus sales tax. FairTax makes a lot more sense, especially since only new items are taxed and there are prebates for things like food.
The Fair Tax doesn't make sense. A simple VAT with sales tax could be done with lower taxes and no gimmicky food rebates or rebates for the poor. Putting a 23% sales tax on products is a turn off.
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Old 12-11-2010, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Atlanta metro
5,645 posts, read 3,978,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkiel View Post

I'm not rich because I'm only 20 and I'm just a student at a Top 30 (worldwide) university. However, I'm intimate with someone who makes around $500K per year. I'm friends with someone who just bought two new Mercedes convertibles. I'm not sure if those people are "rich" but they definitely are wealthier than 99% of Americans.

Luck had a lot to do with how they become rich or at least their current lifestyle.

I've never said that I'm an expert. That's why I recommended Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers.



Have you ever heard of a random number generator? That's pure luck. The existence of pure randomness can be proven.



RANDOM.ORG - Introduction to Randomness and Random Numbers

-------------------------

My point is not to make a statement about current tax rates, but to say that the concept that everything is determined by hard work is wrong. I just can't stand how the Republicans say that the rich get all their money from hardwork without any luck. Life is unfair, we should accept that rather than pretend that life is fair.
So do you think it's luck that you're supposedly in such a great school? Or was it b/c your parents are rich and can afford to send you there?

How do you know these friends of yours are "lucky"? Examples, please.

How does a random number generator apply to real life? What might be random is like a heap of snow sliding off a roof onto passersby. Two of those people may fall and break their arms as a result. What those two people decide to do with their lives while in a cast is up to them. One could get himself fired for not showing up to work and collect UE. The other could figure out a way he could stay working and not collect UE. Which one do you suppose is better off? This is obviously just an example (sounds random, I know, but it's not...weather.com had a video of snow falling from a roof onto people below ) but you get my point.

Your last statement worries me. You're saying we should just accept our lot in life. That is ridiculous. I'm surprised you made it into a top 30 school if you really think this way. Why do you think you're in that school? Probably b/c you worked hard in high school. It's not luck that you got in there, nor does it have to do with your parents' name or money.

You can turn any situation into one that benefits you by changing your mindset and changing your behavior.
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Old 12-11-2010, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Atlanta metro
5,645 posts, read 3,978,506 times
Reputation: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkiel View Post
Why did you strive for a hotel management position instead of an investment banking VP? If everyone can do the same thing, and if you were willing to try your best then why didn't you work at an investment bank?

I think I know a few reasons.

You didn't go to a magnet school because your parents couldn't afford the 30K per year for a private school.

You didn't get into the top private universities because you couldn't afford them and didn't have the chance in high school to get really good grades (you were probably working during the summer when some classmates went to Brazil to volunteer).

You might have had community college education but the top investment banks don't hire from CCs.

You didn't get an MBA (last chance for IB) because you didn't get a BA from a top school and you couldn't afford the 200K tuition.

Basically, you had no chance of working at a top investment bank and earning $1M per year as a VP. I just proved that "we all can do the same thing IF we are willing to do" is false.
What a load of crap. Sorry, but you are just full of stereotypes.

Private school, "good" colleges and MBAs don't guarantee that a person will be rich. The opposite is also true, in that people can come from nothing and not even have a high school education and end up being wealthy.

What if the person doesn't want to do investment banking? I have absolutely no interest in that, but I am a manager at a restaurant, I also do marketing. These are more along the lines of my personality and interests. I have the potential to make good money (not great) if I keep working hard. I'm okay with that, I don't need to be "rich" to be happy...however, I know ways I could make more money outside this line of work, things I may do after DH and I have more in savings. Anything is possible if you WANT it. Perhaps if I had followed my childhood dream of becoming a veterinarian I would be wealthier at this point in time. But reality quickly sets in when you're an adult and you figure out what you are and aren't cut out to do (I'm too emotional about animals, so being a vet would not be good for me).

Not everyone can do the same job, that was not implied by anyone. But if you want to do something, you can do it if you work hard enough at it. Nobody says "I'm gonna work hard to be an investment banker" if they don't have the drive to do investment banking to begin with.

Nice try, strawman.
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Old 12-11-2010, 07:51 PM
 
3,259 posts, read 5,105,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkiel View Post
Also, people always quote the "rags to riches" stories. But there are a lot of people who work very hard but are still poor.
If a person works for minimum wage for all of his life, then he or she is poor because, for some reason, he or she didn't have the drive or motivation to learn a new trade or go back to school to earn more money. I have noticed that some people who stay in low paying jobs are not there because of lack of opportunities. They seem to be on those jobs because they just seem to think that's all that they can do. Hello????? Did they think about going to night school, learning a trade, getting their credit together to start a business, saving money to invest it?

One thing my parents taught me was that you can do anything you want to do if you put your mind to it. We all have to crawl before we walk, and my mom used to always tell me that if I were to get a job at Walmart, then at least strive to become a manager. I don't have to be a stocker or cashier for 30 years.

I don't believe in luck, but I do believe that one has to take advantage of the opportunities that are out there. In my opinion, hard work pays off for those who have the drive and motivation to want to become successful.
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Old 12-11-2010, 08:03 PM
 
3,065 posts, read 3,702,805 times
Reputation: 2695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkiel View Post

I'm not rich because I'm only 20 and I'm just a student at a Top 30 (worldwide) university. However, I'm intimate with someone who makes around $500K per year. I'm friends with someone who just bought two new Mercedes convertibles. I'm not sure if those people are "rich" but they definitely are wealthier than 99% of Americans.
You don't even have a concept of what wealth is, if that's your benchmark. I could go out tomorrow and buy a different Mercedes for each day of the month if I wanted. That doesn't make me rich in the slightest. It makes you well-off.
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Old 12-11-2010, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Texas State Fair
8,567 posts, read 9,347,925 times
Reputation: 4220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkiel View Post
So you think Monopoly requires just as much skill as chess?
Spoiler




I'm not rich because I'm only 20 and I'm just a student at a Top 30 (worldwide) university. However, I'm intimate with someone who makes around $500K per year. I'm friends with someone who just bought two new Mercedes convertibles. I'm not sure if those people are "rich" but they definitely are wealthier than 99% of Americans.

Luck had a lot to do with how they become rich or at least their current lifestyle.

I've never said that I'm an expert. That's why I recommended Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers.



Have you ever heard of a random number generator? That's pure luck. The existence of pure randomness can be proven.



RANDOM.ORG - Introduction to Randomness and Random Numbers

-------------------------

My point is not to make a statement about current tax rates, but to say that the concept that everything is determined by hard work is wrong. I just can't stand how the Republicans say that the rich get all their money from hardwork without any luck. Life is unfair, we should accept that rather than pretend that life is fair.
They both require information, adaptation and application of skills.
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