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Old 12-11-2010, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
547 posts, read 1,368,346 times
Reputation: 508

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Of course hard work is important, but most of the rich are also very lucky. You need luck AND hard-work to be rich. The problem with setting taxes is that people just assume that the rich's wealth is proportional to their effort. I don't think that's true. I think it's more like after a certain amount of effort, you need luck to be super successful.

That's why I think the rich needs to have more taxes. It accounts for the luck factor.

The book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell talks a lot about how people become successful.
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Old 12-11-2010, 12:50 PM
 
10,715 posts, read 11,423,427 times
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I agree, this is why FDR chose to be a democrat and work for the people. Coming from wealth, he saw in his own family the vast majority of people with mass wealth inherited it, or married into it. Most have never worked a day in their lives. Just look at people like paris hilton and the kardashians. Though there are many rags to riches self made millionaires, but the fact is the most never actually earned their mass wealth.
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Old 12-11-2010, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
547 posts, read 1,368,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TempesT68 View Post
I agree and this is why FDR chose to be a democrat and work for the people. Coming from wealth, he saw in his own family the vast majority of people with mass wealth inherited it, or married into it. Most have never worked a day in their lives. Just look at people like paris hilton and the kardashians. Though there are many rags to riches self made millionaires, but the fact is the most never actually earned their mass wealth.
Also, people always quote the "rags to riches" stories. But there are a lot of people who work very hard but are still poor.
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Old 12-11-2010, 12:54 PM
 
10,791 posts, read 6,910,634 times
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I disagree. We need to eliminate taxes on everyone's income, all businesses and corporations, and all investments.

We need a national VAT and a sales tax on top of that. That's what should fund the federal government.
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Old 12-11-2010, 12:56 PM
 
Location: California
29,633 posts, read 31,948,941 times
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It's also about being smarter. Smart people can figure out more ways to make money than stupid people. How do you tax that?
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Old 12-11-2010, 12:59 PM
 
Location: New London County, CT
8,950 posts, read 9,821,120 times
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Success is a matter of luck, inheritance, hard work and intelligence. You are all correct.

However, I think people vastly overestimate the amount of inherited wealth in this country. My father was a venture capital executive with a Fortune 500 firm. He made close to a million dollars some years. My income is in the mid 100K's. I feel I am successful, but I also made it on my own. My parents money didn't get me where I am.

That having been said, I had advantages that poor but intelligent people don't get-- Connections, excellent college education, etc...
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Old 12-11-2010, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,924 posts, read 27,049,375 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkiel View Post
Of course hard work is important, but most of the rich are also very lucky. You need luck AND hard-work to be rich. The problem with setting taxes is that people just assume that the rich's wealth is proportional to their effort. I don't think that's true. I think it's more like after a certain amount of effort, you need luck to be super successful.

That's why I think the rich needs to have more taxes. It accounts for the luck factor.

The book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell talks a lot about how people become successful.
And that tv show that I can't mention the name of the host of had a very wealthy man on yesterday. Jon Huntsman has given over $1 billion to various charities, mainly his cancer institute. His story is one of success and failure.

You can see some of the Huntsman story on that show I can't say the name of on your computer.
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,924 posts, read 27,049,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
I disagree. We need to eliminate taxes on everyone's income, all businesses and corporations, and all investments.

We need a national VAT and a sales tax on top of that. That's what should fund the federal government.
But a VAT is a sales tax so why have two of them.
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
547 posts, read 1,368,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
It's also about being smarter. Smart people can figure out more ways to make money than stupid people. How do you tax that?
The relationship between intelligence and income is very weak.

Quote:
The answer is no. "Being more intelligent does not confer any advantage along two of the three key dimensions of financial success (income, net worth and financial distress)," Zagorsky finds, looking at the data with statistical tests. Income does weakly correspond to intelligence test scores, he finds, where "a one point increase in IQ test scores is related to an income increase of $346 per year. But at most, that same one-point increase in IQ leads to "a net worth increase of at most $83, but probably zero."

And when it comes to financial distress, smarts are no help at all. People with 140 IQ scores (a score of 100 is average) missed payments and maxed-out their credit cards more often than their lower IQ counterparts. They went bankrupt at a rate, 14.1%, close to the rate of people with an IQ of 80, 15.2%. "Only among people slightly above-average does an increasing IQ score lead to a reduced chance of financial distress," says the study. "The survey provides no data to explain why this occurs," but Zagorsky offers these explanations for High IQ types getting into financial hot water:
Study: It doesn't pay to be smart - USATODAY.com

A one point increase in IQ leads correlates with an income increase of $346. Suppose then, that someone makes $100,000 more. To get that just from IQ, you'd need him to have 300 more IQ points.
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,924 posts, read 27,049,375 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkiel View Post
The relationship between intelligence and income is very weak.



Study: It doesn't pay to be smart - USATODAY.com

A one point increase in IQ leads correlates with an income increase of $346. Suppose then, that someone makes $100,000 more. To get that just from IQ, you'd need him to have 300 more IQ points.
You can see the story I mentioned earlier on TV right now on Fox News.
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