Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No they won't go to war. There will be no need. If the United States fail to honor its financial obligations the consequences will be so devastating there will be no need for an attack.
Correct. We can just consider ourselves serfs in a reorganized fiefdom. I suspect it will wind up going that way. It's so much easier to own people outright than get into nuisance confrontations about sovereignty.
So is history going to be honest and declare who sold my kiester down the river to the Chinese? It's too cheap and easy to blame it all on Bush or walmart. Who decided to let go of trade deficits in negotiations? Who decided to sell deregulation? Boil it all down to bones it comes down to think tanks who were never elected but sponsored by well heeled interests and megalomaniacs.
The only question left to ask is if republican leadership was really that gullible to believe they had the reigns, or did they deliberately set out to destroy America? It wasn't a single Judas. They all sold out to neoconservative kool aid. They've railed & meddled with every federal government program created by dems no matter how pragmatic it's purpose. Now we've got a street worth of morons shrieking the fire department's are communists convinced stealing for a living is fine but paying your taxes is a crime. I have nothing to say beyond I sorely wish these people could pay for everything they're begging for in a gated like minded community and leave the rest of us out of it.
When you have a small group of gangsters controlling the supply and value of capital, such that exists, and has existed for almost 100 years ... you have "crony capitalism", not free market.
are these people serious?
these are just labels. that is free market capitalism. those who have the most are the ones who make the rules and continue to get rich.
Kentucky how about buying a toy truck from the local Ace hardware or John Deere dealership. Granted you may sill by China but these stores are franchises not corporate. We have to start digging out someplace and filling in the bottom seams like as good a place as any.
I think many of us have been saying this for the past couple of years. It is absolutely the ONLY way for the USA to get back on it's factory feet. But I'll admit I avoid doing it because I can afford the stuff at WalMart/Dollar General/other discount superstores.
If I shopped elsewhere....I would have to learn to live with LESS.
But wouldn't it be great if we could all get together as a country and be determined to live with less if it meant giving more people their jobs back?
it'a amazing how deluded the public is. of course those who are on the advantageous side of capitalism will say that it's all good. they are making the loot while you work for their gain. they will justify it because it works for them.
that's what pure capitalism is. if they can offshore jobs for lower wages for more profit, then that is the order of the day. still, even if it weren't so, capitalism's appeal is about gain. pure and simple.
free market or crony is all smoke and mirrors. without proper communistic and protectionist principles with it, someone is going to get screwed.
What you've just described is "free market capitalism", and it's a great economic model .... hopefully one day, we might get a chance to see it in operation in this country. Right now, it's a fairytale. There is nothing "free market" about the system in it's current form and actual operation.
When you have a small group of gangsters controlling the supply and value of capital, such that exists, and has existed for almost 100 years ... you have "crony capitalism", not free market. This control over the supply and value of money literally controls the markets, and charts the course and trends. Sure, there are some short term winners that can see benefits of the system, but that often relies on good fortune more so than good business practices these days, and those market conditions can change radically is short order.
I liken the system as it exists now to a form of "economic farming" to which the currency is the water supply that dictates what grows and what dies, who succeeds and who fails. You may have some control of your business success by offering a better product or service than your competitors so long as the supply of water remains flowing, but if your client base experiences a drought, so will you.
Small business operates on small margins, and as the economic cycle ramps up (growth cycle) those businesses may expand to satisfy increasing demand. But when the cycle dips during the downturns (harvesting cycle) only those larger corporations with sufficient capital are able to ride out the fall ... and the smaller guys are often forced to liquidate, which allows their gains to be "harvested" at well below market value by the capital flush larger corporate monopolies. Once consolidated, the cycle turns up again ... and all of this (both the upturns and downturns) are engineered by that small group who control the flow of capital ... the value of that capital in terms of both supply and interest rates ... and who receives the flow of that capital.
Furthermore ... you may think you "own" your business and the building for which you operate from ... but you don't really own squat ... if you have a mortgage, the bank owns your building and your business ... if you've paid off the note, the government owns your building and allows you to pay rent on it (property taxes), and of course, you are subject to IRS, selectively, to which the large, "connected" corporate interests are exempt.
In other words, you operate in an environment similar to a casino ... yes ... there are winners that beat the "house" occasionally, which lends some element of credibility to the game ... but at the end of the day, the "house" always comes out on top.
At the moment, we see an implosion occurring that is most certainly by design ...the housing market collapse was just the tip of this iceberg and few realize the extent of the fraud that has occurred. The currency crisis that followed and is in play now, will will continue, and the collapse of commercial real estate is next on the list for consolidation, along with a devastating round of bank failures that will kick into high gear next year.
You may think you're the king of your castle ... I've got news for you ... you're a renter like everyone else ... you just haven't been told ... yet.
Guy, you talk as if I wrote a fairy tale about capitalism (as does Rory).
I'm telling you about my real life. It is no fairy tale. Here's a couple of specific points you mentioned that we need to discuss.
1. Yes, my building has a mortgage on it. I bought it 10 years ago, and it will be paid off within the year. The bank that financed it has a long tradition of supplying credit for a price to those who are likely to return the money, in the bank's determination. Over the past 25 years, for me, they have financed homes, rental properties, commercial properties, vehicles, and business loans. I had next to nothing when I started with them as a young man; we both have prospered from the relationship. I could not have done what I did without them, and they earned money for the service they provided. Win-win deal.
1a. Yes, I pay property taxes, about 2% of the value of the building. This is not extortion or ownership of MY property: Main Street stays paved and repaired, the town is policed, fire and emergency services are covered, and they also spend money to educate the young. Do I like how every dollar is spent? No. Do I need and appreciate the services bought by my taxes? Yes.
2. Income taxes: Man, the tax rate is NOT 100%! You can read my posts to learn that I think the top 10% and the top 5% of income earners are paying enough already. You say that I don't own squat; you are just wrong. I live on a lake, have a boat, a condo in the sun and a convertible to cruise down Gulf Blvd just about any month I choose to. I guess I'll remain ignorant and have a fabulous life while you folks "in the know" spend your time pissing and moaning.
Bottom line, I have carved out a fine piece of real capitalism, and I am living it. I guess I could have chosen to simply whine about the fine points as some here do, throw up my hands and curse the bankers and the big corporations and the other political side--but I took responsibility for my existence instead. The world is not perfect, our country is not perfect, yes we have challenges including fundamental threats, but America is a can-do country.
One final point: my little business is possible in part because of mega corporations. One of them is a key partner, another popularized the productivity revolution over the past 25 years that has been so valuable to small businesses, another one provides the key machinery--which costs half as much and is 10,000 times more capable than twenty-five years ago. Thank goodness for them.
Kentucky how about buying a toy truck from the local Ace hardware or John Deere dealership. Granted you may sill by China but these stores are franchises not corporate. We have to start digging out someplace and filling in the bottom seams like as good a place as any.
That seems to be splitting hairs to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecovlke
Some people boycott based on ethical business practices, or lack thereof.
And some think they are boycotting for those reasons, but then they shop somewhere else that is just as bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50
Just go to Google and type in "Costco versus Walmart" and you'll see tons of editorials written on this.
Quote from the article: "A Business Week report shows Costco's average hourly wage is around $15.97, far above the Wal-Mart (Sam's Club) $11.52 figure (this is excluding the 25% of Wal-Mart workers who are low-paid part-timers- OUCH!). "
Quote from the article: "The Costco article, a "news" story in the New York Times by Steven Greenhouse, was all about how Wall Street was not happy with Costco CEO Jim Sinegal because he pays his people an average of $17 per hour, which is about 42 percent more than the average Wal-Mart employee."
I find those Costco wages hard to believe. $16-$17/hr to stock shelves and check out merchandise? That is almost as much as I make as a registered nurse. It is more than my friend makes as a school health room paraprofessional, where she functions like an ER nurse.
Here are some more links with more realistic information:
http://www.priceviewer.com/costco/costco_employment.htm Costco pays starting employees at least $10 an hour, and with regular raises a full-time hourly worker can make $40,000 annually within 3.5 years. Cashiers are paid $10.50 to $17.50 an hour.
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/...ny/Hourly_Rate
See chart. You'll notice they pay their pharmacy techs less than their warehouse supervisors and their opticians only 1c per hour more (than a warehouse supervisor).
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 12-12-2010 at 04:26 PM..
these are just labels. that is free market capitalism. those who have the most are the ones who make the rules and continue to get rich.
And I'll add, 'run this country'. The politicians are bought and sold like prostitutes to the highest bidder (lobbyist). The lobbyist work for the pimps, who are the corporations.
That's my summation of politicians and politics in America, and probably not far from the truth.
Kentucky how about buying a toy truck from the local Ace hardware or John Deere dealership. Granted you may sill by China but these stores are franchises not corporate. We have to start digging out someplace and filling in the bottom seams like as good a place as any.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
That seems to be splitting hairs to me.
If you have a better place to start fixing America then the small local business I would love to hear it. This is a deep hole and the people losing is us. Even if the product from a local store is foreign buying local is supporting the small retailer, then keep filling in the hole from there. That's at least a start.
If you don't like my idea fine but offer an alternative solution. Don't just whimper. I am so tired of people complaining but doing nothing to get this country back on track. Offer solutions. Your Americans. Ideas are welcome here.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
