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Old 12-13-2010, 05:56 PM
 
13,180 posts, read 12,730,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
The flaw with the thinking of the person you linked to is.

If someone is NOT buying insurance, they are NOT taking part in commerce. You cant regulate the NON commerce taking place.. There is nothing authorizing the NON COMMERCE in the Constitution.. NOTHING...
Pal, you claim people will be put in jail for not buying health insurance so I'll stick with Orin Kerr for now. You jumped the shark on that one...lol .
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Old 12-13-2010, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,243 posts, read 14,794,078 times
Reputation: 4583
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
The flaw with the thinking of the person you linked to is.

If someone is NOT buying insurance, they are NOT taking part in commerce. You cant regulate the NON commerce taking place.. There is nothing authorizing the NON COMMERCE in the Constitution.. NOTHING...
You may want to learn a little about the man who's opinion you dismiss.
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Old 12-13-2010, 06:05 PM
 
9,897 posts, read 6,620,482 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post

Doctors don't want to help people, they want to GET RICH.
It's attitudes like this, that make doctor's wonder if Medicine is really worth it. It is not the doctors getting RICH, but
the pharmaceutical companies, administrators, and insurance companies. Your anger is misdirected


Physicians for a National Health Program
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Old 12-13-2010, 06:16 PM
 
69,372 posts, read 53,796,370 times
Reputation: 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
YOU ARE WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG! If we all had the same plan Single Payer then there would be no refusal of service based on $$$$ and many people who would otherwise lose their life over this nonsense, would LIVE.
For someone who claims to know so much, you seem to ignore that its AGAINST THE LAW to deny care.. So having insurance, or not, or even Cobra, which expires, THE LAW MANDATES CARE!! period.. You can sit here and discuss how much experience you have but if you dont know this.. YOU DONT KNOW SQUAT...

And I find it funny that you claim about how there would be no refusal of services based upon $$$ right before you say
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
YES, the poor have health insurance THAT NO ONE WILL ACCEPT currently with our ridiculous health care system! Currently MEDICAID does not offer ENOUGH MONEY for health services provided, so the patients HAVE NO WHERE TO GO when they are ill! GET IT?
Doctors wont take medicaid because they pay so very little, (which actually is EXACTLY what I said above) But no one in america is denied care at hospitals.. NO ONE...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
I have heard of people trying to get preventative Dr. appointments but no doctors are accepting the welfare health insurance because it DOES NOT PAY ENOUGH, so these people end up at the ER for sore throats etc.. wasting OUR TAXPAYER MONEY who has to pick up a $3000 bill for strep throat..
Wait.. you just said they would be denied care, now you are saying the taxpayer is paying for the tab.. which is it? You just said they get care, while claiming they dont.. otherwise there would be no $3k bill
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
If there was a standard price FOR DR VISITS and we all had the same health care plan this would not be an issue.
Its not an issue. I pay $75 to see a doctor, if you think thats excessive then maybe you need to re-read the Obamacare bill which INCREASES the cost of care by THOUSANDS for a family..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
My Father died because of this bull. He was a patient at a hospital and he almost died from pnuemonia. The Large hospital had to admit him as he was not breathing. He had numerous previous health issues and was on a ventilator for weeks. After 4 months in the hospital he was ready to transfer somewhere. He was a fall risk, no rehab center would take him because he had a C-pap machine to breath at night but no one qualified would accept him for the money Medicaid was offerring to pay, so the hospital removed both the fall risk status (even though he had absolutely NO Ball and socket in his hip...X-rays were taken, and he was definitely a fall risk) AND they removed the C-pap status, JUST so he could be sent to a nursing home INSTEAD of a rehab center.
Through all of this you PROVED 2 things.. 1) Your father died because of pneumonia, and 2) he got care until his death. Do you somehow believe he died because he was treated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
Unfortunately for him, he was STILL a fall risk even though they "removed" that status. He fell 5 times at the nursing home, the 5th time he broke his leg. He had a full cast and 4 weeks later he was dead from a fat embolism caused by the break. They had taken him off blood thinners 2 weeks after that but since the staff at the nursing home was not able to help transfer him from bed to wheelchair with the cast on, he ended up with an embolism that killed him.
And even with UHC, he still would have died.. Sucks, but we've all had deaths.. UHC is not the solution you pretend it to be.. Especially if the government says no they wont cover something.. Who then will you turn to? At least now he had something to fall back on..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
HE DIED BECAUSE OF THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IS A PIECE OF ****. If we had Single Payer this would NOT happen because there would be NO DENYING rehab centers admittance for patients who medically NEED IT.
Bull crap..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
You people speak in theories and grand ideas and cheapskate lingo.

I speak FROM EXPERIENCE with the health care system. When I refused to take my father home because he was a fall risk and I was unable to transfer him 6 times a day, they threatened to leave him ON MY PORCH. SERIOUSLY! This was the administration at a 600 bed Hospital. They could not get him a Dr. to see him once he was released so why on earth was I going to accept responsibility for someone who had severe medical needs that needed to be addressed. The hospital found a way around that and it cost him his life.
They did not. By your own admission he died from a fall.. Do you now suggest people get strapped in bed and not be allowed to get up? Why would you accept responsibility for your father? I'm not even going to reply to that because I'll be tosd here..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

They are dying from lack of treatment, from changing status's so that some incapable facility will take them just to get the SOMEWHERE ELSE. Stop saying I am not educated. I have dealth with the more meical facilities and health care insurances than you can imagine. I have had 6 different insurances myself from different jobs and they are all ridiculous.
Boo hoo hoo.. They are not dying from treatment, your father died from falling.. Spare me the blaming his death on hospitals. You arent educated on reality, you keep blaming the very same medical professions that TOOK CARE OF YOUR FATHER while you wouldnt "take responsibility"...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taboo2 View Post
There are many hard working Americans who get laid off, their Cobra expires, they have no insurance even if working F/T etc... there are MANY decent people who are poor at this very moment.

For you to assume all people on some sort of health care assistance are lazy or generational poverty is crazy. My father was on disability from a serious injury sustained ON THE JOB.

Hmm... for someone who acts like they know so much, I doubt you know much about the health care system at all. Oh and I worked in it as well for 6 years.
And when people are poor they get medicaid, and when they dont have medicaid, they STILL GET TREATED.. Dont pretend I dont have a clue what I'm talking about. My fiance has been sick for 15 years.. I've fallen and broken both wrists and got 100% treatment depite having no medical care.. And I've worked for a company that did insurance for the government. You HAVE to be treated.. ITS THE LAW... So spare me the nonsense, especially considering you believe that private insurance companies dont insure for the government. Do you know that the government insures almost NO ONE? DID YOU KNOW THAT? They contract this out NOW.. And you keep asking for more?
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Old 12-13-2010, 06:16 PM
 
62,736 posts, read 28,017,960 times
Reputation: 7949
Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
Pal, you claim people will be put in jail for not buying health insurance so I'll stick with Orin Kerr for now. You jumped the shark on that one...lol .
What do you think will happen to people who don't buy insurance, and don't pay the IRS penalty for not doing so? Hmmm?

What happens to people who don't pay the IRS what they owe? Jail, perhaps?
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Old 12-13-2010, 06:19 PM
 
69,372 posts, read 53,796,370 times
Reputation: 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
Pal, you claim people will be put in jail for not buying health insurance so I'll stick with Orin Kerr for now. You jumped the shark on that one...lol .
Did not.. I said you would be put in jail for not paying the tax associated with not buying health insurance. The fact that you cant distinguish between the two is YOUR problem.. not mine...

Even link you to media matters for your reference.. http://mediamatters.org/research/200911130055
Fact: Willful failure to pay taxes of any sort can result in civil or criminal penalties

A press release by Rep. Dave Camp (R-MI) relying on a letter from the Joint Committee on Taxation states that "Americans who do not maintain 'acceptable health insurance coverage' and who choose not to pay the bill's new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years." That section of the letter dealing with "civil and criminal penalties for noncompliance" specifies that Camp asked the committee to "discuss the situation in which the taxpayer has chosen not to comply with individual mandate and not to pay the additional tax." Thus, the letter is not discussing the penalties for failure to buy insurance, but the penalties for both failing to buy insurance and failing to pay the tax. The committee's letter explains that the tax code provides penalties to prevent tax evasion of any sort: "The Code provides for both civil and criminal penalties to ensure complete and accurate reporting of tax liability and to discourage fraudulent attempts to defeat or evade tax." [Joint Committee on Taxation letter, 11/5/09]

Why dont you stop getting part of the story, and then pretending you know what you are talking about while you repeat it embarassing yourself. Its humorous, but it doesnt make for a good discussion to have to keep schooling you on realities.. Do you really think you wont go to jail for not paying taxes? Please.. no one can be that foolish..
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
You may want to learn a little about the man who's opinion you dismiss.
This from the man who said Obamacare wouldnt increase costs, while you link me to the report that said it would.. Do you have anything intelligent of substance to say, or just rambling?

Last edited by pghquest; 12-13-2010 at 06:29 PM..
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Old 12-13-2010, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,243 posts, read 14,794,078 times
Reputation: 4583
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Did not.. I said you would be put in jail for not paying the tax associated with not buying health insurance. The fact that you cant distinguish between the two is YOUR problem.. not mine...

This from the man who said Obamacare wouldnt increase costs, while you link me to the report that said it would.. Do you have anything intelligent of substance to say, or just rambling?
I linked you to the actual CBO report so you could actually be able to have some facts. The cost of premiums will rise with the cost of providing the services. As the Ins Co incurs greater cost, they pass them on to the policy holder, the premium go up. That is not new and certainly not due to the new Law. As far as the question at hand, I think I will defer to the opinion a person with some SC exposure. He clerked for Justice Kennedy and served as Special Counselor to Sen John Cornyn for SC nominations.
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Old 12-13-2010, 06:41 PM
 
69,372 posts, read 53,796,370 times
Reputation: 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
I linked you to the actual CBO report so you could actually be able to have some facts.
Lets review our conversation on this thus far, shall we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
And not only will it be expensive for people, but the CBO said that Obamacare would make it vastly more expensive.. several thousand dollars per family per year..
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
Continuing to lie about what the CBO says about this I see.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/107xx/doc...0-Premiums.pdf
Not only did you said I was wrong, but you said I LIED.. Now you are telling me that I was correct, but the increase was justified? You flipped flopped all on the same thread..
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
The cost of premiums will rise with the cost of providing the services
But we were sold on this LOWERING costs. Remember the plan, if we make those pay that dont use the plans, the cost would be spread out and thereby lower? The cost, again, according to the CBO will rise BECAUSE of obama care.. Again, read the CBO report you linked to..
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
As the Ins Co incurs greater cost, they pass them on to the policy holder, the premium go up. That is not new and certainly not due to the new Law.
So you think the CBO is wrong? The very same report you linked to claiming I was wrong, (which actually verified I was correct), you are now disputing? Again, we were told the costs WOULD GO DOWN.. not UP.. Do you undrestand that down is OPPOSITE of reality?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_yt9GT-Mas
A prime example of liberals who listen to whats said, and ignores reality..
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
As far as the question at hand, I think I will defer to the opinion a person with some SC exposure. He clerked for Justice Kennedy and served as Special Counselor to Sen John Cornyn for SC nominations.
And there are numerous of others with SC exposure who claim this guys wrong..

Tell me how I'm taking part in commerce, if I DONT buy healthcare?
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Old 12-13-2010, 07:08 PM
 
7,344 posts, read 9,023,714 times
Reputation: 8416
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Lets review our conversation on this thus far, shall we?


Not only did you said I was wrong, but you said I LIED.. Now you are telling me that I was correct, but the increase was justified? You flipped flopped all on the same thread..

But we were sold on this LOWERING costs. Remember the plan, if we make those pay that dont use the plans, the cost would be spread out and thereby lower? The cost, again, according to the CBO will rise BECAUSE of obama care.. Again, read the CBO report you linked to..

So you think the CBO is wrong? The very same report you linked to claiming I was wrong, (which actually verified I was correct), you are now disputing? Again, we were told the costs WOULD GO DOWN.. not UP.. Do you undrestand that down is OPPOSITE of reality?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_yt9GT-Mas
A prime example of liberals who listen to whats said, and ignores reality..

And there are numerous of others with SC exposure who claim this guys wrong..

Tell me how I'm taking part in commerce, if I DONT buy healthcare?
THis coming from a guy who refuses to buy an insurance policy, and expects everyone else to pay his medical bills for him..

Don't talk to me about responsibility...
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Old 12-13-2010, 07:11 PM
 
69,372 posts, read 53,796,370 times
Reputation: 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
THis coming from a guy who refuses to buy an insurance policy, and expects everyone else to pay his medical bills for him..

Don't talk to me about responsibility...
Just because I refuse to buy insurance and I undestand how they make money, and chose to operate in the same manner to self insure, doesnt make me not responsible. Maybe you should educate yourself on the same and you wouldnt look so foolish, especially considering no one has ever paid for my medical bills and ever will other than myself
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