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Old 12-15-2010, 01:56 PM
 
14,253 posts, read 14,763,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
YOU asked how to keep the levels down to 'swiss' levels




AGAIN, I will ask..just what will you cut

when you pay a doctor $100 for a visit, you are not just paying the doctor..you are paying his nurse, his receptionist, the billing clerk, the electric company, the supply company, the equipment company, the lease/mortgae holder, the gas/oil company, the landscaper, etc

it seems you FAIL to reasize that


so AGAIN, whos JOB, or service are you going to cut to get COSTS down to say "swiss levels"
Because none of these other systems that manage to supply health care at such a lower per capita cost has to pay for all this?
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Old 12-15-2010, 02:04 PM
 
Location: 22 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
23,315 posts, read 13,040,502 times
Reputation: 5889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
Because none of these other systems that manage to supply health care at such a lower per capita cost has to pay for all this?
you still didnt answer the question....and you, yourself said in the last post that the percapita INCOME in these other countries was much lower, even 70% lower than here.........so AGAIN, who's JOB, or service are you going to cut to get COSTS down to say "swiss levels" , or lowering salaries

.
.
.
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YOU want lower costs..I want it too.....

so what way would YOU lower it

as I said before

when you pay a doctor $100 for a visit, you are not just paying the doctor..you are paying his nurse, his receptionist, the billing clerk, the electric company, the supply company, the equipment company, the lease/mortgae holder, the gas/oil company, the landscaper, etc


so AGAIN, who's JOB, or service are you going to cut to get COSTS down to say "swiss levels"



the average hospital spends 380,000 a MONTH just on electricity...that's over 4.5 million a year just to power the building...then you have the custodial workers, and the food workers, and the laundry, and the water....thats before you even talks about technicians, nurses, doctors, and specialists

many, many hospitals are going BANKRUPT

so AGAIN, who's JOB, or service are you going to cut to get COSTS down to say "swiss levels"


doctors are going bankrupt.....Ventu Medical Group has filed for bankruptcy, closing its doors to more than 1,000 patients.


so AGAIN, who's JOB, or service are you going to cut to get COSTS down to say "swiss levels"






sorry but this isnt some bumpersticker
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Old 12-15-2010, 02:06 PM
 
14,253 posts, read 14,763,931 times
Reputation: 13621
I don't need to answer the question. The fact that so many other developed countries manage to do it means that it is feasible. Were it up to me, however, I would start by getting rid of health insurance corps and moving to a taxpayer funded universal coverage system.
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Old 12-15-2010, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Va. Beach
6,384 posts, read 4,233,713 times
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Default Nope

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
So doctors are all men? Just askin'.



The FBI is local now? Federal student loans are really not federal? The service academies are not federal? There is no federal aid to education, fire services, and law enforcement?
Not all doctors are men, just the one I am talking about.
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Old 12-15-2010, 02:12 PM
 
Location: 22 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
23,315 posts, read 13,040,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
I don't need to answer the question. The fact that so many other developed countries manage to do it means that it is feasible. Were it up to me, however, I would start by getting rid of health insurance corps and moving to a taxpayer funded universal coverage system.
but you do need to, because its not just the END USER costs

average percapita income in the USA 39k (2003 numbers)...in the UK 27k...in France 26k....Canada 29.8k
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Old 12-15-2010, 02:13 PM
 
Location: THE USA
3,254 posts, read 5,265,500 times
Reputation: 1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Reader View Post
Here is something interesting:



Source: National Geographic site

Doing good would be a thick line, low on the left and high on the right side.

This about sums it up.


Nations who prove health care to all citizens live longer and spend less. WHAT is the problem with Americans? They continually defend LARGE corporations (this time Insurance Companies) in their misguided quest to KEEP THEIR FREEDOM.

Ugh stupid people believe that your freedom is somehow tied to your health care requirement.


Canada, The UK and a ton of other countries are much more free than we are. We are too wrapped up in God and Guns for some reason.

Americans are just stupid, and the smart ones are sick of the stupid people focusing on the WRONG THINGS.
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Old 12-15-2010, 02:25 PM
 
14,253 posts, read 14,763,931 times
Reputation: 13621
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
but you do need to, because its not just the END USER costs

average percapita income in the USA 39k (2003 numbers)...in the UK 27k...in France 26k....Canada 29.8k
And in Switzerland .....

Per capita income (2009 est.): $63,519.

Switzerland

Almost twice the income and almost half the health costs.
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Old 12-15-2010, 02:29 PM
 
Location: THE USA
3,254 posts, read 5,265,500 times
Reputation: 1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
Nobody is getting financially raped by the HC system. That is pure lies and fear mongering. If you go bankrupt over medical bills, then you didn't do your homework and find another option.

You are kidding right? A few years back I was on Cobra through my old employer and amazingly enough they got a plan that screwed me, but I had to take it because I was not accepted at other insurance companies (they denied me for having had a surgery within a year). So when I had an emergency OUTPATIENT surgery it ended up costing me $5000.,00 (deductible copay maximum) which happened after the initial $500 First dollar amount I already used up. I was already paying $420 monthly premium and $30-100 co-pays depending on lab. service etc...

Also let's not forget that my former employer changed plans yearly in August, so not only did my deductible start over every January, but as they changed to a cheaper plan each August, even if I had fulfilled my deductible before that, I was having to re-fulfill it under the new plan. And then in January it would start over again. That was a horrible situation and many people are currently in it.

You really see that as not doing my homework? I was not accepted by other plans because there was NO LAW against them denying me coverage. And the plan my Cobra offered was ridiculous and expensive.

There is something VERY wrong with the system we have.
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Old 12-15-2010, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,243 posts, read 14,753,473 times
Reputation: 4583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
I'm not sure I accept this. Why can't we look at reforms which will bring costs down ... say to Swiss levels? Why do we have to accept that the average American is getting financially raped by our health care industry?
As long as the profit incentive in involved in virtually all aspects of providing care, the costs will rise. We can curb some of that with fraud and abuse efforts as well as removing profit incentive where we can(ie. Ins Cos), perhaps not allow Drs to have ownership positions in Med Labs, etc. There are many areas that the profit incentive is detrimental. There certainly many areas where profit incentive is very valuable, research and development for ample. So, there are several things that could happen, but many would require admitting that free enterprise is not universally beneficial.
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Old 12-15-2010, 02:30 PM
 
14,253 posts, read 14,763,931 times
Reputation: 13621
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
As long as the profit incentive in involved in virtually all aspects of providing care, the costs will rise. We can curb some of that with fraud and abuse efforts as well as removing profit incentive where we can(ie. Ins Cos), perhaps not allow Drs to have ownership positions in Med Labs, etc. There are many areas that the profit incentive is detrimental. There certainly many areas where profit incentive is very valuable, research and development for ample. So, there are several things that could happen, but many would require admitting that free enterprise is not universally beneficial.
Yes, agreed
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