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View Poll Results: Should people be required to submit to a drug screen before receiving unemployment benefits or welfa
Yes 118 65.19%
No 63 34.81%
Voters: 181. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-20-2010, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Atlanta metro
5,645 posts, read 4,122,293 times
Reputation: 983

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
I've NEVER had to take a pre-employment drug test, and we both live in the same state... what kind of jobs do you do, where they don't trust their employees to be responsible for their own bodies? And do they consider how long certain drugs - even in tiny doses - stay in your body? Can somebody who smoked a joint on Saturday still perform their job on Monday? If not, they were obviously a lousy worker to begin with.

Oh, and as a fellow Californian, how do you feel about medical marijuana users? Should they be subjected to these tests as well, considering the law of medical privacy at work? Quite the conundrum, isn't it?



Unemployment and welfare are two different things... let's get that straight first, and then maybe this discussion would make more sense.



How often does a STONED (pot alone) driver kill somebody? I think alcoholics kill the most people on the road, along with sleepy drivers... so do you support testing for alcohol use and sleep deprivation?
It doesn't matter what state you live in. I had to take a drug test to work for a credit union in FL. Many jobs say "DFWP" or the like on their employment ads, which means 9 times out of 10, you will be required to take a pee test before you are able to get the job. Just b/c YOU haven't had to take one means NOTHING.

UE after 26 weeks is, IMO, welfare. Many people would agree (as is evidence on CD). Let's get THAT straight.

I have no idea the statistics on marijuana deaths while driving, but that is not the topic at hand. We're talking about welfare recipients using money they do have for drugs instead of, for example, food.

I already addressed the legal drug thing in reference to pills. If you are taking narcotics and have a valid doc's prescription, you should have to present it in order to explain any substance that may come up on your pee test. Medical marijuana users would have to do the same thing. Sorry, but if you're applying for welfare, you are already consenting to an in-depth search of at least your finances, so it's not a stretch to include a drug test to ensure you're not doing anything illegal (using illegal drugs or abusing legal ones).

I'm still waiting on someone who thinks it's okay for people to take $400 in food stamps each month while supporting a $100/week drug habit.
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Old 12-20-2010, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Atlanta metro
5,645 posts, read 4,122,293 times
Reputation: 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
I get what you're saying, and understand why it would make you mad... but it's one thing when you hand a person money, and another when they're collecting legitimate government support. Once that money leaves your paycheck (or however you pay taxes), it's none of your business who spends it where. I occasionally give money to homeless people, and not ONCE have I asked "where/how are you going to spend it?" nor have I followed them to make sure it's used for food. That was my decision to give them money, and my responsibility for their actions ends with that exchange. Does that make sense?e!

So I imagine you have no problem with the wars, no problem with pork spending, no problem with Congressional salaries, no problem with the amount of money spent when Mrs. Obama wants to take a vacation...?

If you give cash to a homeless person, you have no idea where that money is going, which is EXACTLY the reason why many people do not give cash, they give food, blankets, a coat, etc. instead, to ensure their money is not being used for cigarettes, alcohol or drugs. Have you not heard about people doing this?
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Old 12-20-2010, 07:44 AM
 
19,081 posts, read 21,862,592 times
Reputation: 13432
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
I get what you're saying, and understand why it would make you mad... but it's one thing when you hand a person money, and another when they're collecting legitimate government support. Once that money leaves your paycheck (or however you pay taxes), it's none of your business who spends it where.
I disagree. It's absolutely my business. Every tax dollar taken from me is my business. It's astonishing that you think it isn't my business. This is the exact mentality that lends to the gross fraud taking place all over the US. People should do whatever the heck they want with my (our) tax dollars? I think not.

Spending my money on wars is my business. Spending my monies to prop up suspect practices by politicians via soft/hard monies, the revolving door, corporate/gov games is my business. Spending my monies on padding a political pocket when it's meant to be used for roads, schools, etc is my business. Welfare exists to help people in trouble with the necessities. Period.

Quote:
I occasionally give money to homeless people, and not ONCE have I asked "where/how are you going to spend it?" nor have I followed them to make sure it's used for food. That was my decision to give them money, and my responsibility for their actions ends with that exchange. Does that make sense?
When I give money to people pan handling on the street, and as a former street performer I know many pan handlers, and most aren't homeless, I know full well that those monies may be used for booze or whatever. That's a choice I'm making.

Quote:
But how do they support themselves in the meantime? People are running out of unemployment benefits as we speak, and there still aren't enough jobs to go around... so where will these people live, and how will they eat, as they're receiving this job training? I agree with putting money into such programs, but we also need to maintain the UI & welfare support for those who need it. These systems are in place for a reason, and there would be major repercussions if it all ended tomorrow.
I'm not necessarily advocating to end support resources for the unemployed and those on welfare. I have my opinions, but that's a different discussion. If the information about drug use was reasonably attainable, and if it's found out that these folk are using our money for non-necessities-not using it to get back on their feet as it's intended, then measures should be taken. Measures that include no cash handling. Debit cards with pictures would be a good start so they can't be sold. Further, leaving a rehab or vocational program with no place to live? I think half-way/interim houses are a good option.
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Old 12-20-2010, 07:48 AM
 
1,296 posts, read 1,961,584 times
Reputation: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
And herein lies one of the problems with drug testing... can you compare somebody who smokes a joint at parties occasionally, to somebody who shoots heroin daily? No? Then how can we distinguish between the two? A "dirty drug test" only shows you have taken a substance, not that you're an addict or "druggie." People need to realize that, and understand these rules could put many DECENT hard-working people out of a job (or broke from lack of welfare/UI). And how do we even know they paid for these drugs themselves? If somebody passed you a joint and you took a hit, does that affect how you're spending welfare money? Think about it.
Sounds like you've really thought out the ramifications, of drug testing. Most people on this thread, haven't thought about anything regarding this issue, except their 'tax dollars'. And they NEVER worry about where their tax dollars go, with regards to absurd wars, and other nonsensical governmental spending. They only want to pick on the poor, who get welfare, food stamps, and UI benefits.

I'm against drug testing of welfare and UI benefit recipients, not only because of the reasons that you mentioned, but also because it would be a blatant invasion of privacy. Our freedoms as Americans, have been eroded already, since George Bush was President. And now, most of these posters want to drug test people who collect government benefits, to survive. Unbelievable! I guess they won't be happy, until the poor in our country are treated like those in prison camps were, in Nazi Germany!
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Old 12-20-2010, 07:52 AM
 
19,081 posts, read 21,862,592 times
Reputation: 13432
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
I've NEVER had to take a pre-employment drug test, and we both live in the same state... what kind of jobs do you do, where they don't trust their employees to be responsible for their own bodies? And do they consider how long certain drugs - even in tiny doses - stay in your body? Can somebody who smoked a joint on Saturday still perform their job on Monday? If not, they were obviously a lousy worker to begin with.
I had to take a drug test for my job. I'm in MA. I'm a pharmaceutical scientist. It's par for the course and I don't agree with it, especially when it comes to maryj. Not that I use it, but it's stupid that it's illegal.
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Old 12-20-2010, 07:54 AM
 
19,081 posts, read 21,862,592 times
Reputation: 13432
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwomyn View Post
Sounds like you've really thought out the ramifications, of drug testing. Most people on this thread, haven't thought about anything regarding this issue, except their 'tax dollars'. And they NEVER worry about where their tax dollars go, with regards to absurd wars, and other nonsensical governmental spending. They only want to pick on the poor, who get welfare, food stamps, and UI benefits.

I'm against drug testing of welfare and UI benefit recipients, not only because of the reasons that you mentioned, but also because it would be a blatant invasion of privacy. Our freedoms as Americans, have been eroded already, since George Bush was President. And now, most of these posters want to drug test people who collect government benefits, to survive. Unbelievable! I guess they won't be happy, until the poor in our country are treated like those in prison camps were, in Nazi Germany!
Frankly, it makes me ill that you may benefit from my tax dollars. I really can't stand the idea.
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Old 12-20-2010, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
29,041 posts, read 44,943,388 times
Reputation: 20423
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea3821 View Post
So I imagine you have no problem with the wars, no problem with pork spending, no problem with Congressional salaries, no problem with the amount of money spent when Mrs. Obama wants to take a vacation...?
Of course I do, but what can I do about that? I guess according to all of you, I can whine about it on the internet... then what? My point was that we ALL have government programs/spending we disagree with, but unfortunately the system doesn't allow us to pick & choose. If I could I'd only give my taxes to education, transportation, and a few other things I vehemently support - but we don't get that choice in our country.

Quote:
If you give cash to a homeless person, you have no idea where that money is going, which is EXACTLY the reason why many people do not give cash, they give food, blankets, a coat, etc. instead, to ensure their money is not being used for cigarettes, alcohol or drugs. Have you not heard about people doing this?
Duh... I live in San Francisco, homeless central, so of course I know about that. I didn't say I'd never given a homeless person a coat, did I? But occasionally if I have extra change in my pocket, I'll toss it their way - and in those rare events, I'm not about to harp on them about how/where it's spent. I'm just not as nosy as the rest of you, I guess, and don't really care what other people do with their money & bodies.
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Old 12-20-2010, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
29,041 posts, read 44,943,388 times
Reputation: 20423
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwomyn View Post
Sounds like you've really thought out the ramifications, of drug testing. Most people on this thread, haven't thought about anything regarding this issue, except their 'tax dollars'. And they NEVER worry about where their tax dollars go, with regards to absurd wars, and other nonsensical governmental spending. They only want to pick on the poor, who get welfare, food stamps, and UI benefits.

I'm against drug testing of welfare and UI benefit recipients, not only because of the reasons that you mentioned, but also because it would be a blatant invasion of privacy. Our freedoms as Americans, have been eroded already, since George Bush was President. And now, most of these posters want to drug test people who collect government benefits, to survive. Unbelievable! I guess they won't be happy, until the poor in our country are treated like those in prison camps were, in Nazi Germany!
Why were you quoting me when you wrote this? We're on exactly the same side!
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Old 12-20-2010, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
29,041 posts, read 44,943,388 times
Reputation: 20423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
I disagree. It's absolutely my business. Every tax dollar taken from me is my business. It's astonishing that you think it isn't my business. This is the exact mentality that lends to the gross fraud taking place all over the US. People should do whatever the heck they want with my (our) tax dollars? I think not.

Spending my money on wars is my business. Spending my monies to prop up suspect practices by politicians via soft/hard monies, the revolving door, corporate/gov games is my business. Spending my monies on padding a political pocket when it's meant to be used for roads, schools, etc is my business. Welfare exists to help people in trouble with the necessities. Period.
Maybe I used the wrong word... it is our business, as in I agree we should be aware & concerned. But when it comes down to personal spending, I just don't get the logistics of worrying about this. If you don't support welfare and/or UI, that is one thing - it's just when people start dictating "they can spend their money on this, but not on this, and only if they do this, etc" that I think we're crossing the line. Does that make more sense?
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Old 12-20-2010, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
29,041 posts, read 44,943,388 times
Reputation: 20423
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea3821 View Post
It doesn't matter what state you live in. I had to take a drug test to work for a credit union in FL. Many jobs say "DFWP" or the like on their employment ads, which means 9 times out of 10, you will be required to take a pee test before you are able to get the job. Just b/c YOU haven't had to take one means NOTHING.
I know drug testing isn't state-mandated, I just meant it's odd that you've ALWAYS had to take one when I've NEVER had to... and generally California is more liberal on these issues. I guess it depends on your field of work (I'm a librarian), but none of my employers have required drug screening.

Quote:
UE after 26 weeks is, IMO, welfare. Many people would agree (as is evidence on CD). Let's get THAT straight.
I bet a LOT of people would disagree over on the unemployment sub-forum... go ahead, I dare you to say that to them. Maybe you were correct in the times of a healthy economy, but these days it takes longer than 26 weeks for most people to find employment - even McDonald's has stopped taking applications, as they were getting hundreds to thousands for each open position. Have you read the news lately?

Quote:
I have no idea the statistics on marijuana deaths while driving, but that is not the topic at hand. We're talking about welfare recipients using money they do have for drugs instead of, for example, food.
If they choose not to eat in order to get high, how does that affect you? I'd understand your point if they got EXTRA money for drugs, but they're still getting the same benefits either way - right?

Quote:
I already addressed the legal drug thing in reference to pills. If you are taking narcotics and have a valid doc's prescription, you should have to present it in order to explain any substance that may come up on your pee test. Medical marijuana users would have to do the same thing. Sorry, but if you're applying for welfare, you are already consenting to an in-depth search of at least your finances, so it's not a stretch to include a drug test to ensure you're not doing anything illegal (using illegal drugs or abusing legal ones).
That's all good in theory, but in reality they still treat medical marijuana like illicit drugs... this has been an ongoing debate in California, so it really does cause me to question the whole concept.
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