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View Poll Results: Should people be required to submit to a drug screen before receiving unemployment benefits or welfa
Yes 118 65.19%
No 63 34.81%
Voters: 181. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-07-2011, 01:21 PM
 
Location: 22 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
23,347 posts, read 13,044,629 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
That's part of the problem I have with those who shriek that the "unemployed" should be denied by the government the right to have a glass of wine or a beer at their own discretion. Most of the people in that demographic could probably pass drug tests, and do people who've lost everything they've worked for really deserve to have the federal government shaking their fingers at them in such an undignified manner?
.
I have no problem with someone having a drink

my problem is IF THESE personell are asking for assistance and saying I can afford rent, food, etc..then they should not be having a LUXURY of getting drugs or drunk on the cratitable hand of the taxpayer
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:25 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,103,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
so your perfectly fine with meth addics

heroin addics

etc

got it
Without a War on Drugs and by regulating Commerce well, we would have fewer problems because multi-billion dollar pharmaceuticals would be able to produce better products at lower prices.

So, you are perfectly fine with the abomination of hypocrisy and letting hypocrites rule over us; got it.
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:49 PM
 
20,471 posts, read 26,600,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
I have no problem with someone having a drink

my problem is IF THESE personell are asking for assistance and saying I can afford rent, food, etc..then they should not be having a LUXURY of getting drugs or drunk on the cratitable hand of the taxpayer
In a perfect world, of course, but the problem lies in implemenation of this sort of policy rather than the morality behind it.

We can never be sure just how someone got that beer...lots of the employed created by the current Depression are people who've accumulated households full of stuff over their lifetimes; some of that stuff may include collections of wine or liquor.

I question how much assistance money actually goes to drugs like meth anyway. They have other ways of getting it.

You never know how someone got that beer, for instance. If a guy on unemployment benefits goes to a neighbor's bbq on Memorial Day and has a beer, why should that be the government's business?

You can't enforce that type of governmental policy without it effecting that type of scenario and others like them, and personally I wouldn't want to live in a country where the government had that much control over the actions of individuals.
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Old 01-07-2011, 02:00 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,103,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
I have no problem with someone having a drink

my problem is IF THESE personell are asking for assistance and saying I can afford rent, food, etc..then they should not be having a LUXURY of getting drugs or drunk on the cratitable hand of the taxpayer
What about corporate welfare; should corporate personnel be drug tested too if they ask for that form of welfare?
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Old 01-07-2011, 02:03 PM
 
24,843 posts, read 31,306,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
What about corporate welfare; should corporate personnel be drug tested too if they ask for that form of welfare?
Many are.
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Old 01-07-2011, 02:07 PM
 
9,972 posts, read 14,050,578 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
What about corporate welfare; should corporate personnel be drug tested too if they ask for that form of welfare?
Cocaine doesn't show up on pee tests for very long. It's out of your system pretty quick.

But I heard that the Wall Street bailouts basically saved the yeyo dealers in Manhattan from being out of a job as well...
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Old 01-07-2011, 02:21 PM
 
Location: 22 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
23,347 posts, read 13,044,629 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
What about corporate welfare; should corporate personnel be drug tested too if they ask for that form of welfare?
corporate welfare...do you mean bailouts

I dont think ANY COMPANY should have been bailed out

the banks liet them FAIL.. the smaller ons will buy up the assets

GM....it was /is a failing company.. break it back to what is used to be chevy a seperate company from oldmobile, or buick, or cady
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Old 01-07-2011, 02:22 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,795 posts, read 3,103,295 times
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Originally Posted by Deezus View Post
Cocaine doesn't show up on pee tests for very long. It's out of your system pretty quick.

But I heard that the Wall Street bailouts basically saved the yeyo dealers in Manhattan from being out of a job as well...
What a difference a bonus makes.
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Old 01-07-2011, 04:09 PM
 
19,081 posts, read 21,230,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
Personally I don't know enough welfare recipients to have a clear idea of just how many of them are using drugs or... "effed up in the head".
If you can't support yourself you're effed up. The very nature of welfare is to help people that are screwed up.

Quote:
It's clear that some see no societal value in protecting the Constitutional rights of the "poor", but then fail to understand that that the Constitution works in such a way that that eventually that type of precedent will effect the rights of all of us. And the 4th amendment is a big one.
I guess in a way they might be viewed along the same lines as criminals in prison. I'm not sure if I see it that way. The issues have so many areas of gray that it's difficult to really have an opinion.

Quote:
It's been tried, anyway, and serious druggies know their way around a drug test. Meth users....pffffttt....can pee clean a couple of days after using.
It's true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Public assistance does not usually require safe work habits in potentially dangerous occupations.
As noted below, it's not a safety issue, it's a being chapped in the arse issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
Quite a few people in this thread have said or implied exactly that--that they should pay for the testing themelves.

I question whether the government can do the testing for a dollar a person.
Oh, they could. Whether or not that would happen is up for debate. I work in a lab and we pay top dollar for products that are cheaply made. The costs for manufactures are minimal, but that won't play into profit margins for going rates, which are probably stratified politically along within market considerations.

Quote:
It's quite understandable to me that some people feel the way that they do about it. It's frustrating to have a neighbor, for instance, who's receiving benefits while you work two jobs just to stay afloat. It's even more frustrating when that person is strung out or drunk all the time, leaves her kids at home while she goes to the bar, and then rolls home to screech at her neighbors because her kids are running wild in the street causing problems.

I called on one such neighbor because her little girl would take off and walk blocks away buck naked while moomy dearest was passed out at noon. Idiot soical worker told me that I had a "responisbility as a neighbor" to watch out for this kid and refused to do anything about the woman in question. Sure, I would go get the kid when I saw it happen but my point to the social worker was that I was not always available to do so since I worked and went to school.

Lots of stories like that out there, I'm sure.

But it's a feel good solution that's been shown to not work.

Mandatory job training is a better option...and that way, if they can't pass the test to get a job, it's on them.
That's what it really comes down to. I have one bf that is so effed up. She's been unemployed since June '09. In the last two years she has been pulled over for DUI and spent a weekend in jail for domestic violence. She's since divorced. She's been collection UI since 6/09 and has not been looking for a job. She doesn't want to go back to work. She's emotionally broken and quite lazy. She knows all this. She's also taken advantage of retraining programs in her state, but she might not finish her program. She drinks cheap wine, goes to the food pantry, and just gets in trouble quite often. As a friend, I don't know what to do. I've given her money in the past. I've offered for her to move in with me, but since she has kids she can't move out of state. In the end, it's up to her. But, I know full well that if she didn't have that monthly check coming in she would be forced to make a move in some direction. Maybe move in with her mom or get a job.

The other woman I know is my late brother's ex. She has 4 kids who are just screwed. They've all been left back 3 times in school. She gets ~2k/mo and it doesn't matter. There's something wrong with her. I don't know if she realizes this, tho. My bf does, but this woman is dense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I think people should take a drug test before realizing any capital gains or dividends. After all they are not working either.
Aren't these folk investing the money they earned? Or are you saying they are investing the money you earned? Or is it just tax payer money? I think it will vary depending on the situation.
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Old 01-07-2011, 04:17 PM
 
19,081 posts, read 21,230,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
In some states (Alaska is one), people actually pay into UI themselves. I've paid into it for years. Since these days I only work seasonally, I've been thinking about applying for UI and getting some of my money back.
You should, imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead View Post
Leaving less with which to pay their employees.
I don't believe for one second that it would increase going rates for salary. Now way. OTOH, it is an aspect of the investment employers have in employees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
I think that more states should follow Alaska's example.

But...someone does pay into it, that's part of the point. It really can't be compared to welfare.
It shouldn't be. It's earned. Folk that don't work aren't eligible because it's based on work.
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