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Old 12-15-2010, 09:28 AM
 
20 posts, read 13,360 times
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For all of you who do not understand the Marine mentality I will help you a little bit. As a former Marine and child of a father who chose the gay lifestyle, I share my point of view.

The Marine Corps is the elite club designed for one purpose and that is to kill the enemy without having to think about it. You may not like this club because we are designed for a purpose you can not understand, but we exsist for a reason.

The problem with gays or women in combat has less to do with the surface problem and more to do with one simple thing, CHANGE. Injecting anything that is percieved to be a threat to the trust level is a threat to the unit.

To be a MARINE you have to trust, and have the trust of each and every member of your unit. If you have one homophobe in that group that cohessive nature is lost and that is the true threat the Marines face with this.

I would ask the question of gay Marines, would they tell if they could, I would say that for all the reasons I have given here they would answer NO 9 out of 10 times.
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:38 AM
 
14,920 posts, read 10,727,888 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by csjones1973 View Post
For all of you who do not understand the Marine mentality I will help you a little bit. As a former Marine and child of a father who chose the gay lifestyle, I share my point of view.

The Marine Corps is the elite club designed for one purpose and that is to kill the enemy without having to think about it. You may not like this club because we are designed for a purpose you can not understand, but we exsist for a reason.

The problem with gays or women in combat has less to do with the surface problem and more to do with one simple thing, CHANGE. Injecting anything that is percieved to be a threat to the trust level is a threat to the unit.

To be a MARINE you have to trust, and have the trust of each and every member of your unit. If you have one homophobe in that group that cohessive nature is lost and that is the true threat the Marines face with this.

I would ask the question of gay Marines, would they tell if they could, I would say that for all the reasons I have given here they would answer NO 9 out of 10 times.
What the hell does the part I underlined mean?
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:47 AM
 
19,447 posts, read 13,195,071 times
Reputation: 4875
Quote:
Originally Posted by csjones1973 View Post
For all of you who do not understand the Marine mentality I will help you a little bit. As a former Marine and child of a father who chose the gay lifestyle, I share my point of view.

The Marine Corps is the elite club designed for one purpose and that is to kill the enemy without having to think about it. You may not like this club because we are designed for a purpose you can not understand, but we exsist for a reason.

The problem with gays or women in combat has less to do with the surface problem and more to do with one simple thing, CHANGE. Injecting anything that is percieved to be a threat to the trust level is a threat to the unit.

To be a MARINE you have to trust, and have the trust of each and every member of your unit. If you have one homophobe in that group that cohessive nature is lost and that is the true threat the Marines face with this.

I would ask the question of gay Marines, would they tell if they could, I would say that for all the reasons I have given here they would answer NO 9 out of 10 times.
It's not bigotry or as you said. homophobia, its the impact on morale when two of the guys in your squad are having sex every night, or the other gay Marine in your unit who is pissed because his boyfriend is cheating on him by screwing that guy in your squad.

I know men who would not put up with their roommate having sex with a woman in their room, much less have to put up with two guys. Then there is the whole soap opera, and emotional roller coaster of ex-lovers, or jilted suitors, harboring resentment or emotion stress, all of which we do not need in theater.
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Texas
5,774 posts, read 6,658,333 times
Reputation: 2856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkatt View Post
Too bad, you're right. He's just passing on what he believes to be accurate information..

The question is, what if he's right. I am not saying yes or no, I am not not against or for, I am asking a question. We are discussing a force of people who live with violence and tension, day in and day out. Do you really think you or I are in a position to know better than he, the unintentional consequences of such as action?

Again I ask, consider the question. What if he's right?
Does not matter if he passing on his opinion, information he believes is correct or just pulling an answer out of his ass. He doesn't make the call or get to decide whether or not the action will be for the best "interests" of the Corp.

The fact that they do deal w/ violence and death day in and out makes the "argument" even more clear. Here is a group of patriotic young men & women who have chosen to heed the call, have taken the same oath and are trained to the same standards and excellence as all others in the Corp. The only significant factor is: Do they do their job when the **** hits the fan. Do they bring honor and unit cohesion to repel and quash any enemy action their squad or platoon encounters? Basically, can they be Marines? Just as their is no such thing as an atheist in a fox hole, there is no such thing as a homosexual in a foxhole. There are Marines, doing their jobs, keeping each other alive and secure by doing so. No matter if they are straight, gay, Catholic, Jew, Black or White. If they can't do the job, their gone. If they can, and can hold it together while doing it, that's all that will matter in the end.


And I do know better than the Commandant. It's the beauty and structure of our National Command Authority and Constitution. The CIVILIAN leadership makes the decisions. The MILITARY arm then carries them out.
Again I answer the question. It's not his call to make. It's just his to carry out to the best of his abilities and the best esprit de corps.
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:57 AM
 
7,901 posts, read 8,623,275 times
Reputation: 3185
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Marine commandant concluded DADT repeal may risk lives - News - Stripes


ARLINGTON, Va. ó The nationís top Marine Corps officer said he could not endorse a change in the ďdonít ask, donít tellĒ law that could cause distractions or endanger the lives of Marines in combat.

Ultimately, the voices of forward-fighting combat Marines who worried about unit cohesion in the Pentagonís survey swayed Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Amos, leading him to recommend that Congress not repeal the law banning openly gay Americans from military service.
A thin and pathetic argument.

Again, bigots are the problem. No bigots, no problem.
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:58 AM
 
7,901 posts, read 8,623,275 times
Reputation: 3185
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
The General's objection is based on what the Marines said they wanted. That is those who are doing the fighting, not those who are sitting back in relative safety in forts in the US. Yep, the men will only fail to follow orders and get kicked out. I wonder what would happen if we had no Marines in Afghanistan. What do you think would happen if they refuse to follow orders from the top?
I wonder what would happen to military discipline if we let soldiers decide these things.

Our military answers to the civilian government. Perhaps the USMC needs a reminder of that.
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Texas
5,774 posts, read 6,658,333 times
Reputation: 2856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
...and then he and other officers will resign.
And good riddance to them. Those who can not "adapt, overcome, and improvise" will be shed to the side of the road and the Corp will move on w/out them, never looking back or thinking of them again. Those who wish to serve will continue to do so.
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Texas
5,774 posts, read 6,658,333 times
Reputation: 2856
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe View Post
Having served in the Marine Corps in Vietnam I know a little bit about unit cohesion and morale. The last thing you want to be thinking about as you're trying to patch together a buddy who is wounded is whether you need to worry about contracting AIDS from his blood. Is that nitty gritty enough for you?
And that is only limited to "homosexual" soldiers all of a sudden? ALL corpmen now wear gloves when treating wounded, and have for the last 10 years. The belief that only gay soldiers would have AIDS is comical. The belief that a soldier would only save or work to save only those who are not gay, is even more hysterical.

Is that obvious enough for you?
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
21,050 posts, read 15,244,790 times
Reputation: 11771
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?! View Post
""""A true professional, through and through. It is too bad so many people give our military so little credit""""""



Ya, like the guy who thought that our well trained competent, focused, dedicated troops would wimp out because of the sexual preferences of the soldier next to him in battle....er, wait......same guy...........
He reported the concerns of those under his direct command as any good leader would, and should, do. Should he have dismissed them out of hand? Of course not. However, unless and until there is proven evidence that any Marine has 'wimped out' because his bunkmate is gay, these are only opinions and are not actionable.
Bottom line for me is that he has clearly stated that he will do what ever needs to be done to 'sell' the repeal to his Marines when the time comes because this is how the chain of command is supposed to work.
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:11 AM
 
1,461 posts, read 1,229,864 times
Reputation: 790
Then he must feel the nation is safer with felons and high school drop outs to fill the ranks. The militiary has always been a conservative organiztion, betweeen 1940 and 1946 surveys of the troops reflected extreme ignorance and fear of Jews and African Americans being in the service.

From Mr. Conservative, Barry Goldwater:

"It's no great secret that military studies have proved again and again that there's no valid reason for keeping the ban on gays...Nobody thought that blacks or women could ever be integrated into the military. Many thought that an all-volunteer force could never protect our national interest...
The conservative movement, to which I subscribe, has as one of its basic tenets the belief that government should stay out of people's private lives. Government governs best when it governs least - and stays out of the impossible task of legislating morality. But legislating someone's version of morality is exactly what we do by perpetuating discrimination against gays...
When you get down to it, no American able to serve should be allowed, much less given an excuse, not to serve his or her country. We need all our talent."
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