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Old 12-20-2010, 06:04 AM
 
69,364 posts, read 61,268,714 times
Reputation: 9381

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
The bill was done in July, the GOP just blocked it in the House. It then passed the House, went on to the Senate and the GOP is blocking it in the Senate.

No why exists, there is no why in this case, its just repulsiveness.
The bill was done in July, it was introduced in July.. it failed in July.. Heck, you moaned and groaned about it then as well..

And you tell me no why exists? More likely your left wing talking points didnt discuss a why because I've stated the why NUMEROUS times now.. If you havent learned by now, then there is little hope..
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Old 12-20-2010, 06:05 AM
 
69,364 posts, read 61,268,714 times
Reputation: 9381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
The Dems only had complete control (I guess by that you mean filibuster proof majority) for four months. The bill was not complete at that time, it has been worked on for a couple years. Its not some last minute bill, and hearings have been held on it.
The bill has too been complete for YEARS.. This is the same bill that failed in July, and failed last year, and the year before, and the year before... etc..
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Old 12-20-2010, 06:08 AM
 
69,364 posts, read 61,268,714 times
Reputation: 9381
Quote:
Originally Posted by kattwoman2 View Post
A few pages ago I posted links as well as statements from the Republicans themselves saying why they are blocking it. Why are people still asking "why"? It's because they want to 1) Vote for a budget first before passing the bill and 2) They are looking for ways to cut costs and find funding.
i asked why to show how a liberal who supports the bill, cant even tell us why those who dont.. dont.. They've been moaning about this bill for almost a year now while trying to find ways to spin it into another hate filled message about the GOP..

For someone who claims that this bill has to be passed now "to save lives", even though the bill has failed time and time again, the other poster clearly cant discuss both sides of the issue and his inability to answer "why", ruins any credibility of his position..

Any individual who wants to discuss a topic and move a plan forward needs to first understand the opposition to the bill if they want it to progress.. The other poster clearly has no interest in moving the bill forward, just interested in joining in the Democratic games of hate..
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Old 12-20-2010, 06:49 AM
 
3,795 posts, read 3,574,917 times
Reputation: 1706
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
i asked why to show how a liberal who supports the bill, cant even tell us why those who dont.. dont.. They've been moaning about this bill for almost a year now while trying to find ways to spin it into another hate filled message about the GOP..

For someone who claims that this bill has to be passed now "to save lives", even though the bill has failed time and time again, the other poster clearly cant discuss both sides of the issue and his inability to answer "why", ruins any credibility of his position..

Any individual who wants to discuss a topic and move a plan forward needs to first understand the opposition to the bill if they want it to progress.. The other poster clearly has no interest in moving the bill forward, just interested in joining in the Democratic games of hate..
and the GOP doesn't use democratic blockage for spin on their own issues?? You yourself are playing the whole spin game right now. whine whine whine the dems are playing politics.

I understand the desire for pay-go. Its something we need to start doing with the budget......oh wait the Republicans just voted for tax cuts for everyone and an extension for unemployment. they just played some more politics, and I didn't hear anything about that one being pay-go.

wait a second, didn't this bill close a tax loophole to fund it?????? oh wait the GOP can't raise taxes on corporations, we need to hope and pray that after 2 years of being bailed out that they'll create jobs.

If you have other reasons for not supporting this bill please tell them. I hope the first responders around you don't hear them though.

It is despicable that this bill hasn't been passed. In the meantime these guys illnesses worsen. Maybe the GOP strategy is to filibuster until these guys die.........
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Long Island (chief in S Farmingdale)
20,651 posts, read 17,811,268 times
Reputation: 4600
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
The bill was done in July, it was introduced in July.. it failed in July.. Heck, you moaned and groaned about it then as well..

And you tell me no why exists? More likely your left wing talking points didnt discuss a why because I've stated the why NUMEROUS times now.. If you havent learned by now, then there is little hope..
It failed in July because the GOP blocked it in July in the House, it has since passed the house, and is now in the Senate where the GOP is blocking it again and continuing to deny giving health benefits and compensation to those who were sickened and dying as a result of breathing in the toxins.
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Long Island (chief in S Farmingdale)
20,651 posts, read 17,811,268 times
Reputation: 4600
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
i asked why to show how a liberal who supports the bill, cant even tell us why those who dont.. dont.. They've been moaning about this bill for almost a year now while trying to find ways to spin it into another hate filled message about the GOP..

For someone who claims that this bill has to be passed now "to save lives", even though the bill has failed time and time again, the other poster clearly cant discuss both sides of the issue and his inability to answer "why", ruins any credibility of his position..

Any individual who wants to discuss a topic and move a plan forward needs to first understand the opposition to the bill if they want it to progress.. The other poster clearly has no interest in moving the bill forward, just interested in joining in the Democratic games of hate..
The bill didn't exactly fail over and over again, it took a couple years to get everything set up and the bill complete, that doesn't mean it failed.

The bill was finished in July, once it was finished it went to the House, where it was blocked by the GOP. The House later passed the bill a couple months later.

Now the bill is in the Senate, and the GOP is blocking it again. Again as far as why, there is no reason why we should be putting the interests of major corporations ahead of those who are sick and dying as a result of breathing in the toxins. The GOP complained about paygo, and this was paid for by closing loopholes for major corporations. So they complain about paying for it, and decide to put the interests of major corporations ahead.

Putting the interests of major corporations ahead of people who are dying and sick because of breathing in the crap that was down there is just repulsive. It simply has no excuse. Now a change in the funding was made, and instead of closing a tax treaty loophole for major corporations it will be funded through an excise tax on government purchases made overseas. Considering this in part was a GOP idea on how to fund it, we will see how many of them decide to vote to allow to bring the bill to the floor when it comes for a vote later in the week (perhaps tomorrow)
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Old 12-20-2010, 02:46 PM
 
52,402 posts, read 22,400,808 times
Reputation: 12601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
The bill didn't exactly fail over and over again, it took a couple years to get everything set up and the bill complete, that doesn't mean it failed.

The bill was finished in July, once it was finished it went to the House, where it was blocked by the GOP. The House later passed the bill a couple months later.

Now the bill is in the Senate, and the GOP is blocking it again. Again as far as why, there is no reason why we should be putting the interests of major corporations ahead of those who are sick and dying as a result of breathing in the toxins. The GOP complained about paygo, and this was paid for by closing loopholes for major corporations. So they complain about paying for it, and decide to put the interests of major corporations ahead.

Putting the interests of major corporations ahead of people who are dying and sick because of breathing in the crap that was down there is just repulsive. It simply has no excuse. Now a change in the funding was made, and instead of closing a tax treaty loophole for major corporations it will be funded through an excise tax on government purchases made overseas. Considering this in part was a GOP idea on how to fund it, we will see how many of them decide to vote to allow to bring the bill to the floor when it comes for a vote later in the week (perhaps tomorrow)
[CENTER]The games politicians play.[/CENTER]
"The House bill would provide special medical benefits for the heroes of 911. Both parties overwhelmingly favor providing the benefits contained in the bill. So why was it defeated and why is the issue so hot in the House?
It is politics of course. It would have passed under the general rules of the House. But those rules allow the proposal of amendments from any Congressman. There is a special rule that blocks amendments. The party that controls the House sets the House rules. The Democrats selected the second rule so Republicans would be unable to propose any amendments.
It would have passed under the general rules. The Democrats control the House and had the votes needed. They chose to present the bill for vote in a manner that assured its defeat.
This New York Times article explains it fairly well. However, I would suggest changing the very first sentence from:
House Republicans on Thursday blocked a Democratic plan to provide billions of dollars for medical treatment to rescue workers and residents of New York City who suffered illnesses from the toxic dust and debris at ground zero.
To read:
House Democrats blocked passage of their own plan to provide billions of dollars for medical treatment to rescue workers and residents of New York City who suffered illnesses from the toxic dust and debris at ground zero. Despite having the votes for passage under the general rules, the Majority party chose to invoke a special rule that led to its defeat."
HEALTH CARE BILL FOR 911 FIRST RESPONDERS | RANDOM THOTS

Just a little more info.
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Old 12-20-2010, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Long Island (chief in S Farmingdale)
20,651 posts, read 17,811,268 times
Reputation: 4600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
[CENTER]The games politicians play.[/CENTER]
"The House bill would provide special medical benefits for the heroes of 911. Both parties overwhelmingly favor providing the benefits contained in the bill. So why was it defeated and why is the issue so hot in the House?
It is politics of course. It would have passed under the general rules of the House. But those rules allow the proposal of amendments from any Congressman. There is a special rule that blocks amendments. The party that controls the House sets the House rules. The Democrats selected the second rule so Republicans would be unable to propose any amendments.
It would have passed under the general rules. The Democrats control the House and had the votes needed. They chose to present the bill for vote in a manner that assured its defeat.
This New York Times article explains it fairly well. However, I would suggest changing the very first sentence from:
House Republicans on Thursday blocked a Democratic plan to provide billions of dollars for medical treatment to rescue workers and residents of New York City who suffered illnesses from the toxic dust and debris at ground zero.
To read:
House Democrats blocked passage of their own plan to provide billions of dollars for medical treatment to rescue workers and residents of New York City who suffered illnesses from the toxic dust and debris at ground zero. Despite having the votes for passage under the general rules, the Majority party chose to invoke a special rule that led to its defeat."
HEALTH CARE BILL FOR 911 FIRST RESPONDERS | RANDOM THOTS

Just a little more info.
To say the Democrats presented the bill with rules that assured defeat is bs. The bill should have easily gotten 2/3 vote and only needed about 30 Republicans in order to get that, however the Republicans voted no, and blocked the bill in the House. With that being said the Democrats then brought the bill to the floor or a simple majority vote and it passed. Its now in the Senate where its being blocked again by the GOP this time from even being debated. Hopefully when its brought up for a vote later in the week enough Republicans defect so we can get this thing passed.
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Old 12-20-2010, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
12,585 posts, read 6,563,539 times
Reputation: 3956
This bill is ridiculous. And people arguing for or against it are equally being ridiculous.

Look, this bill is nothing more than a sympathy vote for people who have health conditions. It is similar to the same sympathy vote for a push for universal healthcare. The only difference between the two, is that this is aimed at people whom many Americans will feel more sympathy towards. Whereas universal healthcare is more aimed at people whom many have no sympathies for(the people who aren't wealthy enough to afford their own healthcare).


The very fact that this bill is in the United States congress, and the fact that Jon Stewart has made such a big deal about it is much to do about nothing.

If people like Jon Stewart(a new-york city resident) wanted to provide those first-responders healthcare, he could either foot the bill himself. Start a charity to provide the first-responders healthcare, or he could press the state government or city government(billionaire Bloomberg?) to give support to these people.

This bill is nothing more than an attempt to manipulate peoples emotions so Weiner can extort more money out of the federal coffers. Although I can't blame him. New York state is an extreme donor state(pays in far more in taxes to the federal government than what it gets back).

This act of Congress, while good intentioned, is simply not in the federal mandate. Basically, it is unconstitutional. Unless you believe that providing healthcare to 9/11 first-responders is somehow authorized through the interstate-commerce clause?


Lastly, I am troubled by Republicans these days. They are far more falling into the democratic mindset. And I don't mean they are acting like Democrats, I mean they are moving away from the very definition of their name. The name Republican roots from Republic, which is supposed to be based on a limited rule by constitutional law. They are falling into the trap of absolute rule by the majority(democracy). I was disappointed when Mike Huckabee was on the Dailyshow saying that Republicans should support this bill. It is disgusting and pathetic. And it nothing more than political theater.

Republicans, where are your principles? Democrats don't need principles, they are democrats(rule by the majority), so they are by their own definition supposed to waffle and blow-in-the-wind as public opinion changes.
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Old 12-20-2010, 04:36 PM
 
Location: California
35,583 posts, read 39,154,787 times
Reputation: 32896
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
Do you understand what happened on Sept 11? That was 2001, by the way. Who knows the full impact of the event? Repercussions may take years to determine. This effort has been 9 years in coming. The Dems finally did create the Bill. I don't know what happened about it from 2001 thru 2009, do you? Do you honestly believe the objection is in the funding or content, not simple political fodder?
No...I don't even know what happened on 9/11. I'm just that ignorant.

Holy crap, this is EXACTLY what I was talking about. Question anything and the loons come out and attack. That would be you btw.

I wasn't complaining about this bill, I wasn't saying it was a bad idea, I was just providing INPUT that I had see ELSEWHERE. Do you even see what you did there or recognize yourself in my post?

I WILL QUESTION EVERYTHING. PERIOD. I DON'T CARE HOW PRETTY IT SOUNDS OR HOW EMOTIONAL IT IS. If everyone did that the world would be a better place.
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