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Old 12-24-2010, 09:24 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,187,987 times
Reputation: 3696

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
Actually without this treaty we'd have no way to inspect and even secure Russian nuclear facilities. These facilties are potential terrorist targets to obtain weapons grade nuclear material.

The people that think this treaty makes us less secure are ignorant and uninformed. Damn near every living Secretary States and and National Security Advisor has come out strongly in favor of this treaty that includes those serving in Republican Administrations.
Hey, I'm all for it and think both the US and Russia should do even more to reduce the number of nuclear weapons. If man insist on slaughter each other as they do, then I'd prefer they do it with swords, because then they would have to look into the eyes of the human being they are killing, as lack of intimacy makes killing so much easier.

I think it is a fools errand not to pursue closer relations and ties with Russia. I'd rather see them as a partner, even a lousy one than as an adversary. While I have no doubt it would be a difficult and bumpy road, we can at least base the first steps of trust on the fact we didn't nuke each other and this planet to oblivion, and one will have a harder time finding this level of parity among places like Pakistan or China.
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Old 12-24-2010, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Arizona
13,778 posts, read 9,657,742 times
Reputation: 7485
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
Hey, I'm all for it and think both the US and Russia should do even more to reduce the number of nuclear weapons. If man insist on slaughter each other as they do, then I'd prefer they do it with swords, because then they would have to look into the eyes of the human being they are killing, as lack of intimacy makes killing so much easier.

I think it is a fools errand not to pursue closer relations and ties with Russia. I'd rather see them as a partner, even a lousy one than as an adversary. While I have no doubt it would be a difficult and bumpy road, we can at least base the first steps of trust on the fact we didn't nuke each other and this planet to oblivion, and one will have a harder time finding this level of parity among places like Pakistan or China.
I think it all boils down to that tried and true saying, "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer." Why would we NOT want to have the power to inspect Russia's installations?
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Old 12-24-2010, 11:18 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,187,987 times
Reputation: 3696
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx View Post
I think it all boils down to that tried and true saying, "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer." Why would we NOT want to have the power to inspect Russia's installations?
I am reminded by Andrew Bacevich's trip across the border as a military attache, when it dawned on him that all the talk about Russia's military and national might that drove the Cold War was a myth. It was dilapidated and in discord, the product of Centralized government's attempt at keeping military parity with the US that far exceeded its income.

The American people were promised to reap the rewards of the "Peace Dividend" that would follow since we no longer had to maintain the same level of military spending and could instead devote some of our resources to domestic issues. Well they lied, plain and simple. US military and Offense Spending never fell below Cold War levels and has since 2001, obviously went ever skyward.

In the wake of the Cold War, when Russia collapsed, instead of the other promises by government that we would reach out and help them come into the fold of Democracy and yaddayadda, we instead did much as we did with the Afghan's and Mujahadeen, and instead turned our backs and walked away with the utterance of WC Fields, "You bother me kid".

Lets face it, this country needs an adversary in order to justify our massive spending on Offense as well as the unifying construct it gives society as everyone can point to a common enemy to either justify or denounce, but the attention is always over the horizon instead of on our own porch.
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Old 12-24-2010, 11:27 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
14,317 posts, read 22,375,727 times
Reputation: 18436
Absolutely pathetic how many sideline foreign "experts" we have here in this country who think they know more than the president.

Nothing Obama does is going to satisfy the warmongering GOP, which means this is a good move.
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Old 12-24-2010, 11:35 AM
 
3,282 posts, read 5,199,793 times
Reputation: 1935
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
I am reminded by Andrew Bacevich's trip across the border as a military attache, when it dawned on him that all the talk about Russia's military and national might that drove the Cold War was a myth. It was dilapidated and in discord, the product of Centralized government's attempt at keeping military parity with the US that far exceeded its income.

The American people were promised to reap the rewards of the "Peace Dividend" that would follow since we no longer had to maintain the same level of military spending and could instead devote some of our resources to domestic issues. Well they lied, plain and simple. US military and Offense Spending never fell below Cold War levels and has since 2001, obviously went ever skyward.

In the wake of the Cold War, when Russia collapsed, instead of the other promises by government that we would reach out and help them come into the fold of Democracy and yaddayadda, we instead did much as we did with the Afghan's and Mujahadeen, and instead turned our backs and walked away with the utterance of WC Fields, "You bother me kid".

Lets face it, this country needs an adversary in order to justify our massive spending on Offense as well as the unifying construct it gives society as everyone can point to a common enemy to either justify or denounce, but the attention is always over the horizon instead of on our own porch.
Quote:
The 1949 novel Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell was written from the viewpoint of a citizen of one of three fictional world-dominating superstates. These nations are in a state of perpetual war with each other. The state of war is used by each of the states to justify the control of their populations using Stalinist or other methods. By artificially creating fear and hate of an enemy, the actual existence of which is never made completely certain, the governments provided an excuse for their failures and, in the case of Oceania, enforced obedience to Big Brother. Moreover, eternal war formed the bedrock of the economy, as people could be kept busy manufacturing goods that would not improve their living standards, but would instead be destroyed on the battlefields. Thus perpetual war not only kept the population busy, it also encouraged a "siege mentality" in which hatred of the enemy and love for the government's protection were social norms.
Perpetual war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh, I could have a field day with the parallels. Only we have it worse, our war isn't even against another country but an amorphous and ever changing concept.
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Old 12-24-2010, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Arizona
13,778 posts, read 9,657,742 times
Reputation: 7485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoarfrost View Post
Perpetual war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh, I could have a field day with the parallels. Only we have it worse, our war isn't even against another country but an amorphous and ever changing concept.
Hah! Our war in Afghanistan was predicated on the government's estimate that there are less than 100 Al Qaeda operatives there. So what do we do? We make our previous allies, the Mujahadeen or more commonly known as the Taliban the new enemy. Dovetails nicely with your wikipedia post.
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Old 12-24-2010, 01:02 PM
 
161 posts, read 141,490 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by citizenkane2 View Post
U.S. Poised to Approve Nuclear Arms Pact With Russia - FoxNews.com


Can someone please tell me about a time when we could ever fully trust the Russians?? Please tell me!!

They have at least 12,000 / We currently have 9,000!! WHO NEEDS TO DO THE REDUCING HERE????

And with China always flexing their muscle, Iran, North Korean and Pakistan acting up, how is this the time to de-power ourselves???? How is this the time to has less protection or deterent????

THIS IS INSANE!! this congress is trying to stick it to this country because we threw them out!! A these liberal Republicans like Graham, Snow and Brown have got to go!!! \\



The Russian Prez is laughing about something...I wonder what it could be?
Let it go. It's Putin's Russia, not Stalin's Red Army. I think 9k nukes is plenty to do accomplish whatever it is you think we 9001 nukes for. The truth is that even with all the nukes we have, you can only accomplish so much with the threat of force. Don't believe me? Look at Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan and Iraq, we have superior everything to them and we still can't fully control the outcome. You have to start looking at the big picture of world diplomacy and conflict. Do you really think that if something were to happen, that we couldn't develop 3k more nukes in time?
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Old 12-24-2010, 02:04 PM
 
131 posts, read 209,082 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
And the paranoid left wingers are the last to wave the flag.

Where has America "raped, pillaged and plunder" another country's resources?

Funding for the military is only 20% of the budget.
You mean like when we worked to overthrow Mossadegh in Iran? Or our decades of meddling in Latin America, installing dictators and taking out democratically elected leaders for easy access to their resources?
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Old 12-24-2010, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,508 posts, read 33,295,278 times
Reputation: 7622
Quote:
Originally Posted by HagbardCeline View Post
You mean like when we worked to overthrow Mossadegh in Iran? Or our decades of meddling in Latin America, installing dictators and taking out democratically elected leaders for easy access to their resources?
You consider that "raping, pillaging and plundering" another country's recourses?

"Meddling" in Latin America? More like preventing communism from taking over.

What resources does the U.S. have "easy access" to?
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Old 12-24-2010, 02:40 PM
 
7,723 posts, read 12,614,165 times
Reputation: 12405
Quote:
Originally Posted by citizenkane2 View Post
U.S. Poised to Approve Nuclear Arms Pact With Russia - FoxNews.com


Can someone please tell me about a time when we could ever fully trust the Russians?? Please tell me!!

They have at least 12,000 / We currently have 9,000!! WHO NEEDS TO DO THE REDUCING HERE????

And with China always flexing their muscle, Iran, North Korean and Pakistan acting up, how is this the time to de-power ourselves???? How is this the time to has less protection or deterent????

THIS IS INSANE!! this congress is trying to stick it to this country because we threw them out!! A these liberal Republicans like Graham, Snow and Brown have got to go!!! \\



The Russian Prez is laughing about something...I wonder what it could be?
I read probably hundreds of visions from people over the years that have said they seen in a dream or whatever that Russia and China will attack the U.S. in the start of the next world war. They are traitors. Trust me. The Bible even says they are. It says a nation from the north (Russia) and a nation from the East (the 200 million man army which is China) will attack Babylon which is America. I suspect they will be able to easily and without effort. Take a look at that missile China shot towards southern California a few weeks ago. That a test to see if they can successful get through our western borders without being detected by radar.
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