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Old 12-23-2010, 08:33 AM
 
7,901 posts, read 8,625,716 times
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A lot of people here have very strong ideological opinions.

Right or left.

Don't you think that when someone gets so invested in a particular set of ideas, or an ideology, that their psychological investment can color their judgment?

Examples - conservatism is always right, liberals are crazy, or liberals are always right, conservatives are crazy, yada yada...

I find it disturbing how polarized this country (US) has become recently, and remember the words of Nietzsche who said:

"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of the truth than lies."

My questions - first, do you think the above is true?

Second, if you self-identify as someone with strong political convictions, how did you get there? How do you justify thinking that your ideology will always be right in all circumstances?
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Old 12-23-2010, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Europe
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Seems true for the US because you only have two parties (who matter). I don't see that in Germany so much, actually people no matter who they vote for agree that politicians suck in general.
Its the people vs politicans whereas in the US the fight is between the followers of the two parties.

Add to that this whole competition BS that people grow up with in the US.

Also, its easier to blame others than to challenge one's own beliefs. I'd call these people mentally lazy.
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Old 12-23-2010, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Houston area, for now
948 posts, read 1,202,807 times
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Its a very true statement. People get in their political box and close the top. I posted in another thread about a woman that I talked to who had no room in her philosophy for negotiation. She is 100% sure that the only path is narrow far right conservative and leaves no room for compromise. She fails to see that (1) she is not the only person with the only ideas in America and (2) she won't even consider that she may be wrong. Other opinions don't matter to her.
Now I am also a fiscal conservative but when I informed her that her line of thinking with out compromise is in fact a road of destruction for the philosophy as a whole she still held to the opinion.
The problem with this type of thinking is as I stated. there are more then one thoughts on politics and the only way for the country to move forward as a whole was to listen to other ideas and allow for give and take. You may not always get 100% what you want but the country needs to move forward even if in your opinion it is at a snails pace.
A very intelligent man (JFK) said you can't please all the people all the time. However we don't have to we must also consider all the people as we go.

39 men signed the US constitution and with 9 of 13 states ratifying it. The Declaration of Independence was signed by 56 men. Any intelligent person will tell you that when you have that many people reviewing a document that is designed to be the foundation of a country there is no way they will all agree on every aspect of it. Instead they look for the greater good which forces and allows for negotiation, debate and compromise so that not one person is deciding for all following generations.
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Old 12-23-2010, 09:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pamky View Post
Seems true for the US because you only have two parties (who matter). I don't see that in Germany so much, actually people no matter who they vote for agree that politicians suck in general.
Its the people vs politicans whereas in the US the fight is between the followers of the two parties.
Oh, puleeze the ideological chasm between American parties can be reduce to differences on how to tinker with policy. Arguments over "big" vs "small" government is hardly ideology in any real meaning of the word.
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Old 12-23-2010, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
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Very true. It's either black or white with some.
If it's their guy or their side promoting it then it MUST be good at all costs.
If it's the other guy or other side then it's BAD no matter what.

That just recently became obvious with the wikileaks issue.
Climategate leaks was good because it helped their side.
Wikilieaks was bad because their side said so.
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Old 12-23-2010, 09:14 AM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,073,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Very true. It's either black or white with some.
If it's their guy or their side promoting it then it MUST be good at all costs.
If it's the other guy or other side then it's BAD no matter what.

That just recently became obvious with the wikileaks issue.
Climategate leaks was good because it helped their side.
Wikilieaks was bad because their side said so.
Thanks for proving my point. Wikileaks being good or bad has crossed political lines.
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Old 12-23-2010, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
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Ideology avoids thinking. Ideology is easy, thinking is difficult. No wonder we have so many ideologs.
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Old 12-23-2010, 09:17 AM
 
39,075 posts, read 23,170,087 times
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I think it depends upon what the convictions are, and how many convictions a person holds. The fewer the convictions, the more open-minded a person will seem to be. But a person with no convictions is a person with no passion, no character, no integrity. For instance, the conviction that harming other people is wrong is a moral conviction. A person who doesn't share this conviction is a person who might hurt others simply because it suits him or her. For people of conviction, their convictions provide a framework via which they interact with the world. But sometimes such frameworks can become more like prison cells, and the interaction with the rest of the world is inhibited by the convictions rather than enabled. Convictions like all liberals are bad, or all black people are violent, or anything, really that places labels on fellow humans, are easy convictions to fall back on, but detrimental to human understanding.
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Old 12-23-2010, 09:20 AM
 
7,901 posts, read 8,625,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Ideology avoids thinking. Ideology is easy, thinking is difficult. No wonder we have so many ideologs.
Hence "reactionaries."


I'm socially liberal but more or less fiscally conservative and not a fan of unions, so I could hardly be called "leftist."

I know I'm not the only one out there like this - but it seems that the opinions of moderates are getting marginalized in the debate.
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Old 12-23-2010, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Houston area, for now
948 posts, read 1,202,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strel View Post
Hence "reactionaries."


I'm socially liberal but more or less fiscally conservative and not a fan of unions, so I could hardly be called "leftist."

I know I'm not the only one out there like this - but it seems that the opinions of moderates are getting marginalized in the debate.
That's where the American citizen has to start seeing being an American as not just a right and privilege but also it comes with unforced responsibility and duties.
As you say moderate opinion is being sidelined. As a moderate American that's where your duty comes in as well as anyone else. Be a voice, get involved, and offer solutions. Even if your solution is not accepted at least you were a party to the overall accomplishment.
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