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View Poll Results: Should children or adults be held responsible for the actions of their parents or adult relatives?
No, this should never happen 54 83.08%
Yes, in some cases I feel it should take place 11 16.92%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-21-2015, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,731,596 times
Reputation: 20674

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Thread is 5 years old.
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Old 08-21-2015, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Oceania
8,610 posts, read 7,893,401 times
Reputation: 8318
Quote:
Originally Posted by sindey View Post
OHHH your talking about black people . I get it now.

Almost 3 pages in and the OP tells us it's about black people.

Why lead us all the way here to divulge?

Why not start with "This is a thread about black people"?
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Old 08-21-2015, 05:25 PM
 
27,140 posts, read 15,313,785 times
Reputation: 12069
What a very thinly veiled title to this poll.
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Old 08-21-2015, 05:41 PM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,419 posts, read 20,304,341 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Backspace View Post
I guess this is a pretty simple question that seems to have been brought up a lot lately with the Dream Act Amnesty failure and I'm wondering how most people feel about this. I know we have an illegal immigration forum but this isn't just about the Dreamers, I'm just asking in general if children or adults should ever be held responsible for the actions of their parents or other relatives.

Is there anything that would cause you to change your stance on the situation?
Are you aware that the Dream Act was never passed by Congress? This means that there is no "Dream Act"

Those children of people who have entered this country illegally, should not be granted automatic citizenship.
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Old 08-22-2015, 09:35 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,009 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13706
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory View Post
I am against big government, the left and progressive liberals as much as the next guy but if this is about stealing inheritance from the wealthy this is the first mention of it in the thread. To be honest, I never knew what the point of this thread was and now this leaks through.

Are you insinuating progressives are unconstitutionally stealing people's inheritances for some insidious reason other than taking from white people who built a legacy? That includes them and their trust funds. Oh yeah....the progressives are millionaires.

If so, it is time to make a run at the banks and get it all out...now.
The millionaire progressives hide their assets in trusts while taxing the hell out of everyone else.

Wealthy Clintons Use Trusts to Limit Estate Tax They Back - Bloomberg Business
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Old 08-22-2015, 09:59 AM
 
17,440 posts, read 9,266,927 times
Reputation: 11907
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
We are a nation of laws. Society breaks down when those laws are ignored/aren't enforced and we accommodate the law breakers. I'm more interested in seeing "anchor babies" overturned. I think the "dream act" would have had more support if it was only the military aspect and not college students.
The Dream Act would have more support IF Obama had not immediately attempted to make all the Relatives of these "dreamers" Legal also via a blanket Amnesty. It was a given he would attempt to circumvent the Laws again to do this and it has turned many against the 'dreamers'.
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Old 08-22-2015, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,806 posts, read 24,310,427 times
Reputation: 32940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
ITA! If the parents want to live here, they can come here legally. Coming here to give birth to attain citizenship for the child really shouldn't be allowed by our country. Children of parents who are not legal residents of the US should not be, automatically, citizens. These people are taking advantage of a flaw in our system to get freebies for their child and themselves. IMO, they're not exactly people we want here as citizens if they'd do that.
I don't necessarily agree with your post, but it did remind me of a conversation I heard on SIRIUS radio a couple of days about anchor babies.

A lot of conservatives like to say that the Constitution is not a fluid and evolving document.

The anchor baby concept in the Constitution, as endorsed by the Supreme Court way back in our history, was based on the situation our country was in at the time.

But now a lot of conservatives say that the situation has changed, and so the Constitution and Supreme Court decisions should change based on present circumstances.

Well, wait a minute. They can't have it both ways. Either the Constitution is firm in place, or it evolves over time.
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Old 08-22-2015, 10:20 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,009 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13706
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I don't necessarily agree with your post, but it did remind me of a conversation I heard on SIRIUS radio a couple of days about anchor babies.

A lot of conservatives like to say that the Constitution is not a fluid and evolving document.

The anchor baby concept in the Constitution, as endorsed by the Supreme Court way back in our history, was based on the situation our country was in at the time.
There is no anchor baby concept in the Constitution, nor is there any anchor baby endorsement from SCOTUS.

Seems you need a refresher:

Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Time again to post the long legal history on this and/or refresh everyone's memory...

The children of illegal aliens born in the U.S. were never intended to have birthright citizenship. This is how we know...

1) The 14th Amendment and it's original intent:

Senator Trumbull: "The provision is, that ‘all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.’ That means ‘subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.’ What do we mean by ‘complete jurisdiction thereof? Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means."

Congressional Record:
http://memory.loc.gov/ll/llcg/073/0000/00152893.tif

Trumbull's role in drafting and introducing the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and the 14th Amendment:
https://web.archive.org/web/20100304...about/history/

Children born in the U.S. to a foreign citizen parent whose country has jus sanguinis (right of blood) citizenship law were never supposed to be born U.S. citizens. They may choose to naturalize as a U.S. citizen at some point, but they were never intended to be U.S. citizens at birth. Only those ignorant of historical fact and the Congressional Record misinterpret the 14th Amendment to mean anything else.

2) Article XXV Section 1992 of the 1877 Revised Statutes, enacted after the 14th Amendment, which clarified exactly who are U.S. citizens at birth per the Constitution:

"All persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are declared to be citizens of the United States".

Revised Statutes of the United States, Passed at the First Session of the ... - United States

3) U.S. Secretaries of State determinations as to exactly who has birthright citizenship:

Secretary of State Frederick Frelinghuysen determined Ludwig Hausding, though born in the U.S., was not born a U.S. citizen because he was subject to a foreign power at birth having been born to a Saxon subject alien father.

Similarly, Secretary of State Thomas Bayard determined Richard Greisser, though born in Ohio, was not born a U.S. citizen because Greisser's father, too, was an alien, a German subject at the time of Greisser's birth. Bayard specifically stated that Greisser was at birth 'subject to a foreign power,' therefore not "subject to the jurisdiction of the United States" within the meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Both cases cited in this digest:
A Digest of the International Law of the United States: Taken from Documents ... - Google Books

4) In regards to illegal aliens' anchor babies... Their parents were NOT in the U.S. legally and therefore did NOT have a permanent domicile and residence in the U.S. as did Wong Kim Ark's, a fact on which SCOTUS based their determination that WKA was born a U.S. citizen:

WKA decision:

"The evident intention, and the necessary effect, of the submission of this case to the decision of the court upon the facts agreed by the parties were to present for determination the single question stated at the beginning of this opinion, namely, whether a child born in the United States, of parent of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States. For the reasons above stated, this court is of opinion that the question must be answered in the affirmative."

The parents must have a permanent domicile and residence in the U.S. WKA's parents were living in the U.S. legally. Illegal immigrants don't have a permanent domicile in the U.S. because they are in the country illegally. Furthermore, it is a federal offense to harbor an illegal alien in the U.S., or aid or abet in their harboring in the U.S. Illegal aliens' permanent domicile is in their home country; the country which would issue their passports were they to have one.

For political reasons, the 14th Amendment has been bastardized since then, but such bastardization was never an actual Constitutional Amendment.

5) The Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 which had to be enacted because even when Native Americans were born in the U.S., they were not U.S. citizens. Why? Because they were subject to a foreign power (Indian Nations). Note that the 1924 date of this Act is significantly later than both the 14th Amendment and the Wong Kim Ark ruling.

I realize that's a lot of historical information to digest. But sadly, our public education system is such a joke that very few people are aware of the history surrounding the 14 Amendment and how subsequent births to parents of various nationalities were treated in the U.S. up until "policy" (not the Constitution or the law) very recently changed.

There has never been any law passed, similar to the 1924 Indian Citizenship Act, that gives birthright citizenship to anyone born in the U.S. but subject to a foreign power.
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Old 08-22-2015, 11:55 AM
 
20,524 posts, read 15,901,778 times
Reputation: 5948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Backspace View Post
I guess this is a pretty simple question that seems to have been brought up a lot lately with the Dream Act Amnesty failure and I'm wondering how most people feel about this. I know we have an illegal immigration forum but this isn't just about the Dreamers, I'm just asking in general if children or adults should ever be held responsible for the actions of their parents or other relatives.

Is there anything that would cause you to change your stance on the situation?
Dream Act people ain't US citizens and need to go back home. If the US born kids of diplomats cant claim birthright under US law, def NO reason for Dream Act people either and the diplomat kids were BORN here.
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Old 09-01-2015, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Our own little Loonyverse
238 posts, read 227,511 times
Reputation: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Think about it... this is EXACTLY what Democrats want. They want to tax heirs on the inheritance their parents or other adult relatives leave them. Democrats are ALL FOR holding children and adults responsible for the actions (in this case, saving and investing) of their parents or adult relatives.
No, no they don't. And I lean about as far left as one can get without falling into the ocean. But nice try.
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