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Old 12-28-2010, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,486 posts, read 23,823,319 times
Reputation: 14833

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
There is plenty of fossil evidence that weather can change rapidly. In fact it is probable that the onset of an ice age will happen very rapidly. With what is happening in the Northeast and Europe, it may be already beginning.
Reading comprehension has really gone down in this country. I blame the teachers' unions.
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Old 12-28-2010, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
41,325 posts, read 44,806,626 times
Reputation: 7118
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
An observation: isn't it interesting how people who generally believe our military and defense department all-knowing with regard to our national security are all dismissive when it comes to this particular issue?

Anyway, further reading if anyone is interested:


National Security and the Threat of Climate Change - The CNA Corporation
And isn't the reverse true as well? Those who rail against the US military, the Pentagon are now very happy to embrace this latest "scare" of the AGW crowd?
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Old 12-28-2010, 01:03 PM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,907,739 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
An observation: isn't it interesting how people who generally believe our military and defense department all-knowing with regard to our national security are all dismissive when it comes to this particular issue?

Anyway, further reading if anyone is interested:


National Security and the Threat of Climate Change - The CNA Corporation
I view military as not a brain, but brawn. It is like a dumb bouncer to which we use to protect ourselves from aggression of other countries. It is simply a tool, not a position of authority to the people. It shuts up and does what it is told, not the other way around.
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Old 12-28-2010, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,230 posts, read 17,788,097 times
Reputation: 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
I did skim it. Saw a lot of "maybes", "possibles", "could be", "mights". Same old baseless predictions turned into "science" and certainties by the AGW crowd.

What is there to know about lake effect snow? Happens every winter, year end and year out. There is no nefarious AGW mystery as to why it happens.

AGU Blogosphere | Home



We lived in Lockport, NY and there was a CLEAR demarcation line from the lake effect snow at times. We had 3 inches of snow in our area one time - no big deal. 20 miles down the road, they had 4 FEET from the lake effect, which shut down the area for a day.
You do realize that Climate Change will cause your guns to jam.
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Old 12-28-2010, 03:54 PM
 
8,058 posts, read 3,912,510 times
Reputation: 5342
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
An observation: isn't it interesting how people who generally believe our military and defense department all-knowing with regard to our national security are all dismissive when it comes to this particular issue?

Anyway, further reading if anyone is interested:


National Security and the Threat of Climate Change - The CNA Corporation

I don't dismiss DoD's war game scenario - I dismiss TnHilltopper's straw man arguement.

The DoD also war games the collapse of the dollar - should I be buying more gold???
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Old 12-28-2010, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,707 posts, read 21,832,898 times
Reputation: 13630
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
A Chilling Possibility - NASA Science

Now whether you are a supporter or denier of climate change, it would seem that NASA and the US Defense Dept are taking this latest issue very seriously.
Who are these "deniers" that believe the climate should never change, and always remain at a constant? [/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
For those not familiar with the North Atlantic current or the global oceanic circulation, it is based on two basic things, the rotation of the earth and temperature variations. As we all know from basic science class, hot air or water rises and colder air or water sinks or falls. It is upon this basic principle that our oceans currents are generated.

Recently, the North Atlantic current which brings warm water out of the equatorial regions of the Atlantic as well as the powerful warm gulf stream which flows northward then east towards Europe has begun to slow. This is the reason why temperatures in places like the UK are relatively mild considering their latitude. When the current slows or stops, then Europe doesn't get its blast of warm water and in turn the mild temperatures.

If this current were to in fact stop entirely, the outcome is likely not to be too good, but read further in the article.
This would all be caused by the Arctic oscillations, a weather pattern in which areas of high pressure push the warming jetstream away from Europe. We are at the beginning of a 20-30 year cycle, the same as we experienced in the late 70s and early 80s. Combine that with our current spotless solar cycle and we are in for a real cold snap.

If the SSRC and other scientists around the world are correct then we have only a few years to prepare before 20-30 years of lasting and possibly dangerous cold arrive.”

“The last time this particular cycle regenerated was over 200 years ago. I call it the “Bi-Centennial Cycle” solar cycle. It took place between 1793 and 1830, the so-called Dalton Minimum, a period of extreme cold that resulted in what historian John D. Post called the â€last great subsistence crisis.’ With that cold came massive crops losses, food riots, famine and disease. I believe this next climate change will be much stronger and has the potential to once more cause widespread crop losses globally with the resultant ill effects.


NASA: Solar cycle may cause “dangerous” global cooling in a few years time | Aftermath News
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Old 12-28-2010, 06:27 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,149,188 times
Reputation: 3696
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
I don't how you have dragged me, kicking and screaming, into this thread but now that I am hear... There is no evidence that the BP spill reached the Gulf Stream.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...e-environment/
Quote:
The oil has also reached the point where the eddy connects to the Loop Current, Walker said. That means the oil is traveling eastward alongside the main stream of the Loop Current, and it's likely that it will continue flowing with the current to Florida, Walker said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
Oh gosh! I just had a thought!
First time for everything I guess, I only hope it didn't hurt too bad.


Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
Just a slight correction here - fresh water is less buoyant than salt water.
Correction, I should have said, salt water is more dense than freshwater, hence the reason it is easier for a person to float in the ocean than on a lake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultor View Post
I don't dismiss DoD's war game scenario - I dismiss TnHilltopper's straw man arguement.
What what strawman argument might this be?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
Who are these "deniers" that believe the climate should never change, and always remain at a constant?
[/quote]

I suppose you would have to ask them, as I have said several times in this thread, a.) I don't know b.) there is a measurable depreciation of current flow c.) People have theories as to why which may or may not be climate related, I again do not know and by the looks of things, neither to they.
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Old 12-28-2010, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
41,325 posts, read 44,806,626 times
Reputation: 7118
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post

First time for everything I guess, I only hope it didn't hurt too bad.
I didn't think you would be able to resist that comment. It takes a LOT of thinking to NOT get sucked into every disaster scenario presented from the AGW crowd. They especially prey on the gullible and easily frightened with their doomsday scenarios that never seem to come true. The Goreacle has about a year left for the ice cap to melt and prove him right.

The lake effect snow machine is completely normal, natural and happens every winter. No AGW scare tactics necessary.

A little common sense goes a long way - like the thought the "phenomenon" has likely happened before, just as the expansion/receding of the glaciers has happened before, just as every single solitary "extreme" in weather OR climate has happened before.
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Old 12-28-2010, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,692,285 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
Since you didn't read the article, as you rarely do, you would have noted this article didn't say it was man made or a natural earth cycle, you just assumed it did. You astute observations on a New York regional weather pattern is quite eloquent, well articulated and beyond the level of technical proficiency I thought you capable of, congratulations.
From your link.

"Global warming could plunge North America and Western Europe into a deep freeze, possibly within only a few decades"

Perhaps you can point me to NASA literature that discuss theories of global warming that are not anthropomorphic........
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Old 12-28-2010, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,683,194 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
There be some way we can stop/reverse the slowing of the ocean currents! I'm sure this has never, ever happened before. If man can prevent the Earth's temperature from rising a 1/2 a degree over 100 years (), surely we can effect the an ocean current.

Oh yeah, I lived in the lake effect snow belt in NY - it would come zipping right over Lake Erie and sock Western NY with many inches, feet of snow. As far as I can recall, usually this happened in the winter, when it was cold.
Make sure you have good insulation and your furnace is in good repair! I believe you will qualify for the North American deep freeze.
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